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Shin Megami Tensei


Ataraxis

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With another installment (SMT: Devil Survivor 2) scheduled to come to the DS at the end of the month, I thought I'd make a topic for the series as a whole and see if anyone else was into it. I'm pretty sure the only person I've talked to about it is PD.

 

It's a series of games with a heavy focus on demons (usually based on a variety of religious/mythological figures). The series' core has traditionally been its dungeon crawlers, but it has branched out into a variety of other styles. I'd assume at least a few people are familiar with the Persona games on the PS2; those are part of the SMT family. The Devil Survivor renditions are grid based strategy, with a variety of other elements (but not dungeon crawling).

 

They're made by ATLUS. If you haven't heard of them, look it up, but maybe do it from home. Some of the demons aren't really work friendly.

 

tl;dr DEMONS? IN MY VAGINA...DEMONS?

 

So yeah...what up?

Edited by Ataraxis
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I've played uhh Persona 1, 3, and 4, Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2, Nocturne, Devil Survivor, Raidou Kuzonoha 1 and 2, and I think that's it.

 

Nocturne is one of the best games I have ever played and tied with best RPG I've ever played.

 

Demi-fiend all day, son!

Edited by Penguin Deus
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ3-qCvI29A

 

Learn the samurai way. Communicate with demons. Save the world (unless you'd rather destroy/rule it, or be neutral - that's usually how SMT plays out). Game looks dope.

 

Soul Hackers looked kind of disappointing, but I haven't tried it. I mean, I know it's an update of an older game, but after Strange Journey (a very similar game), expectations went up.

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Soul Hackers is dope, the ending falls flat but it's a lot of fun otherwise, and for whatever reason the post game stuff was amusing too.

 

My biggest problem with it is that the post-game grinding spots are terrible once you reach level 80 or so, and that fusing demons is harder now than I remember it ever being in an SMT game.

 

UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT: I don't really like Persona 2, much. Eternal Punishment, not Innocent Sin (didn't play it yet).

 

I'm all in on SMT4 though and I pre-ordered it last month.

 

The thing about Soul Hackers though is it does some really novel shit with how the story is structured. Like, novel in the SNES RPG sense. They take big chances that end up being pretty wonderful most times, even if they seem bigger at first than they really are.

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I was still planning on getting Soul Hackers, so it's good to hear you enjoyed it. It's reassuring. It's an updated port of a Saturn game, so that might explain some of the SNES like qualities, haha. That's another part of why I want to play it. It's something from another era that I never got to experience.
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Keanu is wrong is why, it looks nothing like Persona because its nothing like Persona.

 

Shin Megami Tensei is like the original main series to that franchise. Persona is like a spin-off/alternate take on that series. They do that a lot (see Devil Summoner, Strange Journey, Persona, Digital Devil Saga, etc).

 

Persona tends to be in a modern setting, usually with a pop/fashion-forward aesthetic. It wasn't as obvious in the first two but it's wildly obvious in 3 and 4.

 

This game is a big deal for hardcore SMT fans like me because we happen to love the original series, which tends to be brutal and dark and involves killing God and/or every other religious figure anyone ever held dear in any regard in human history.

 

That and the demi-fiend's body tats are kinda fresh.

 

If you are an SMT fan there's a decent chance you'll like Persona, and vice versa, but it's certainly not automatic because there's a ton of major differences.

 

Oh and SMT tends to get way heavier on the issues it addresses in the game.

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you might yeah, I don't know shit about smt4 yet because I've avoided all spoilers intentionally but I bet it gets pretty dark pretty fast.

 

Persona 1 is cool, Persona 2 I honestly don't like much, Persona 3 Fes is one of the best games I've ever played, and Persona 4 as a game is just as good (or better) but I personally like Fes more. I could definitely see how it could be annoying to someone, but honestly once you play it the game does such a good job of developing the characters and giving you reasons to care that you probably will end up liking everyone.

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i dont actually play any of these games but my friends love P4 and P3 and keanu told me SMT and persona are like the same thing but SMT IV has like demons and medieval shit and persona is a bunch of schoolgirls

 

lol, that's not what I said at all. wtf.

 

I said that SMT moniker has a lot of different games, and that the key difference between Persona series and main series was probably with how demons are dealt with. Recruitment versus from within and all that jazz. I mean yeah that's a big simplification of it but the demon systems are the meat of the game for me.

 

fkn nob what a guy

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hahahahaha fkn nob

 

but nah the meat of the game for SMT is def not the demon systems, for Persona you could sorta make that case more cuz everything is directly tied to the Arcana manipulation which = demon system but ya...to say something like Nocturne or Raidou Kuzonoha is about the demon system is wild reckless

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I dunno man even in Nocturne I spent a good portion of my time just dicking around with fusions and recruitment. I wasn't thinking thematic differences at all though and it definitely should have been mentioned so yeh GG PD.

 

Meat of the game heart of the cards fkn nobasus black eyes blue balls polymerization.

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The thematic differences are probably the biggest ones, though. It's not like the art and music are done by different guys.

 

The entire driving force of Nocturne is that insane story and setting. You WASTE the most time fusing because of the randomized ability charts, but if that was seriously "the meat of the game" to you, I'm deeply sorry (for you).

 

For example, in Personas 3 and 4 you talk to people to build relationships, which power up the arcana. You progress through the game and meet people, which means more relationships, which power up the arcana. You do levels, which leads to meeting people, and you know the rest by now. Everything in the game leads to the arcana, by design. This is because the Persona themselves are the primary driving force of the story. They are the masks the characters wear to face challenges they wouldn't otherwise be able to deal with. They are a physical representation of the characters' personalities and ideals. That's why you never really fight Personas, aside from extraordinary circumstances like major bosses and the like.

 

The Persona games are about development and understanding of the personalities involved, and the Personas are literally the other side of the coin for them.

 

That's so far from the case in Nocturne that it's mind-boggling that you could make the claim. The demons are just 1) things waiting to be conquered or 2) means to an end. That's why the demons you fight are the same ones you recruit. You COULD say, "but Mike, isn't that thematically what Nocturne is about, anyhow? Manipulation, conquering, destruction, and making morally ambiguous - at best - decisions?" to which I'd say, "Yes, but demon fusion isn't really about all that. They are tools because the game mechanics AND story consider them tools. They are what equipment would be in any other RPG." In Nocturne, pretty much everyone was either someone you crushed, or someone who got crushed by someone else before you got a chance to do it yourself.

 

Again, all that is by design. Nocturne wants you to look at things as a life-and-death struggle, to ask yourself, "Everyone thinks I'm just a piece on the board, but what if I don't play along?"

 

TL;DR Persona games are character-driven and Nocturne is plot-driven.

 

Also as an aside what I mentioned about P3 and P4 are why I love them so much and dislike P2. I like how P3 and P4 approached the concept of the arcana and persona, and made them so integral to the story.

 

fuck that's a long post

Edited by YUNG ADULT CONTEMPORARY
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The thematic differences are probably the biggest ones, though. It's not like the art and music are done by different guys.

 

The entire driving force of Nocturne is that insane story and setting. You WASTE the most time fusing because of the randomized ability charts, but if that was seriously "the meat of the game" to you, I'm deeply sorry (for you).

 

Like I said, it definitely should have been mentioned, and I do appreciated the differences. Not just thematically, but in the way they almost always manage to come up with different ways of setting things up for the story in each game throughout the franchise.

 

I'll say you shouldn't be sorry for me, because learning about all the demons, interacting with them, and trying to make great ones is one of my favourite things about the games. It's kind of a thing for me, since I enjoy similar elements in other games (Monster Rancher, Jade Cocoon, Pokemon). With new SMT games, I go in hoping it'll have an engrossing story, but knowing I'll enjoy that system.

 

Also, main series seems to have some pretty good variance itself. I've only played Nocturne and Strange Journey, but they're both different animals. SMT IV looks to be a new beast yet again.

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