Jump to content

NEXT: Green [First Competitive draft]


Mobius

Recommended Posts

So for the day I decide to immerse into Kai and find all 3 people willing to play AC4A still I want to get throttled using a decent design. Since I don't go on the computer while playing PS3 I mainly made this off of memory of what I read here. I'm willing to improve the design with any suggestions given.

 

AC Side-View and part list

 

http://i.imgur.com/QX0Zhqe.jpg

 

 

NEXT Aesthetic

 

http://i.imgur.com/VzCs7zM.jpg

 

 

Tuning

 

http://i.imgur.com/ElOiqhR.jpg

 

 

I don't exactly know how I feel about the missile system nor about the White Glint core but I was trying to go for something less drainy. I started using regulation 1.40 today and noticed a significant difference in EVERYTHING which made this seem slower than before. I don't know how effective shotguns are competitively so if that's idea to scrap then let me know. I think I should probably tune for stunt and less for ratification too if I am going to pvp. The stabilizer choices were obvious.

Edited by Mobius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shotguns are viable for competition, but they're not the easiest weapons to use depending on the situation. Even when you have Auto Sighting turned on, you need to know working angles and timing your shots well. They along with the Kamal especially are very good for easily punishing players trying to close in on you in general, though.

 

If you want a more simple set up, then assault rifles are good to pair up with machine guns. MR-R102 if you want huge amounts of ammo, or 04-Marve if you want huge damage.

 

The MP-O901 is a bad missile by itself, but is good when paired up with the 061ANRM relation missiles. You obviously can't do that with White-Glint/Core though, so you're better off using something that hits hard by itself. Either of the VTF missiles or the MP-O203 can work wonders without relations helping them.

 

If you plan on using OB, then don't use the AA version of Judith. AA in general takes very specific kinds of builds to not be a last resort tactic in 1.40 because of how long the recovery is. All of the AA OB parts also have very bad boosting functions compared to the regular ones, to the point they're rarely ever practical for it.

 

You shouldn't spread out the tuning when it comes to Rectification and Stability. The numbers go to the same function, so it's always best to put all of them into whichever one part has the highest number since it scales more. Also, you shouldn't put any into Boost unless it's Vertical Thrust. Always put them into Quick Boost instead.

 

That's all for now. I can help you more with frame synergy, internals and weapons though. I'm sure nob has or will say some things too. He's the only other person I'd recommend listening to for competitive advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i made your ac in my game and it doesnt look like my numbers are matching up to what you have. youre probably not building within regulation 1.40 even though you can still use your AC in 1.40

 

switch your regulations, make some adjustments, and then i can give a more reasonable response. you might be picking some parts for stats that arent even relevant to 1.40

 

btw most people around here call me nob, the orange juice hero

 

you can call me anything u want as long as i can recognize that youre talking to me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you plan on using OB, then don't use the AA version of Judith. AA in general takes very specific kinds of builds to not be a last resort tactic in 1.40 because of how long the recovery is. All of the AA OB parts also have very bad boosting functions compared to the regular ones, to the point they're rarely ever practical for it.

 

You shouldn't spread out the tuning when it comes to Rectification and Stability. The numbers go to the same function, so it's always best to put all of them into whichever one part has the highest number since it scales more. Also, you shouldn't put any into Boost unless it's Vertical Thrust. Always put them into Quick Boost instead.

 

I noticed that earlier today. I guess I'll go lintob or however it is called and drop AA. I'll keep that in mind next time. To add: I didn't know it scaled to the same function. I read elsewhere about PA rectification tuning and well I guess you can see my misguided attempt. Now that I know that I can finally spread some of these points a lot better. Also why only quick boost if you don't mind me asking besides the obvious.

 

i made your ac in my game and it doesnt look like my numbers are matching up to what you have. youre probably not building within regulation 1.40 even though you can still use your AC in 1.40

 

switch your regulations, make some adjustments, and then i can give a more reasonable response. you might be picking some parts for stats that arent even relevant to 1.40

 

I'll investigate it tomorrow. Does that imply that you can build for a regulation and still use it or are you saying that my assessment is off? My assessment is probably off if that is what you mean, and I can probably see into it tomorrow. I made the AC in regulation 1.20 or something and went to 1.40 fooling around saying "Well if I am going to play online," which caused it to behave only marginally different.

 

Also.. obvious question but just in case: You are Pengiun Deus right?

Edited by Mobius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

usually if you ever want PA ret tunes, its 50 into the core and thats it (the core always has the best scaling per point)

 

you dont typically put tunes into normal boost because quick boost is your main form of movement in this game. if you put points into normal boost, the speed increase wont be as effective as putting them into quick boost. the only time i could imagine putting tunes into any normal boost is if you made a specialized sniper AC that only went backwards and you needed the extra speed, but in that case you would only add back boost tunes after already maxing your back quickboost tunes.

 

tunes in general arent worth it unless you put over 40 into a specific area. anything under that and the effects are marginal at best.

 

your AC stats are displaying for the regulation 1.20, which means your game is not in regulation 1.40 when you are building your AC. you could have built your AC in 1.40 and then took a picture of it in 1.20 and vice versa, but the differences between those two regulations could warrant the creation of two different AC games.

 

between each regulation, its not just in-game physics mechanics that change. every part stat for EVERY ac part is affected by regulation changes. a good part in regulation 1.20 could be completely trash in regulation 1.40, and if youre not careful, you might even end up with an AC thats overweight in one regulation and perfectly fine in another.

 

its extremely important to design within the regulation 1.40 if want to create a competitive ac. regulation 1.20 was very imbalanced in terms of pvp and by the end of its lifespan, there were about 25 parts total that were usable (this includes frame, internal, and weapons combined). 1.40 greatly increased the diversity of usable weapons online.

 

you might think its only a marginal difference in behavior, but thats because acfa is still acfa. that "marginal" difference is actually an extremely huge difference because it affects your mobility, defense, energy, kp, and weapon performance all at the same time. and its not just small amounts of change either; the change between each aspect from regulation to regulation is so great that it forces you to rethink gameplay strategy completely.

 

its one thing to beat up AI ACs, but human opponents and online lag are a whole different playing field. a weapon with around 700 velocity might net you about a 80% hit rate vs offline AIs, but if you play online, anything with a velocity under 900 will average a 5% hit rate if you were to try and use it in the same way. and this isnt vs decent players either; your opponent could be standing still and you could land a direct hit on them for 0 damage (i wish i was exaggerating but i am not).

 

 

 

ALSO GOOD THING YOU ASKED WHO I WAS BECAUSE I AM NOT PENGUIN DEUS (PENGUIN DEUS IS CURRENTLY "YUNG EPSOM SALTS")

 

I AM NOB, ACDC, DR NIPPLE, AND ABOUT 40 OTHER NAMES THAT I USE SOMETIMES

 

GO REBUILD YOUR ROBIT IN 1.40 AND REPOST IT SO I CAN GIVE YOU MORE ADVICE

 

AND THEN WE SHOULD PLAY ONLINE TOGETHER SO YOU GET A FEEL FOR PVP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh wow. I made my adjustments before even reading this thread, except for the tuning (though I made adjustments to it, I guess I can retune it again now reading this). Well I made some updates

 

I made my missile weapon adjustment to VTF, or described as VTF (not sure if this is proper). I switched the white glint core for SOLUH and my reasoning I will post below.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Sj3xSLm.jpg

 

 

Before I read Pengiun I took a look at 1.40 and compared it to 1.20 and saw the enormous jump of weight with generators alone. I mean I didn't have to do much else there when I saw the significant increase so I kind of knew what that implied for everything else and went along that.

 

As far as rebuilding it? What else would there to be rebuilt. I know that the AI won't measure up to players having somehow competitive experience myself (ACLR in person with Ethos and company in person). I mainly use Wynne for weapon test and feel rather than "yeah this will work 1v1." Which leads me to my SOLUH part choice

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/tooJWua.jpg

 

 

Now don't crucify me, but it seems as though the 1185 solid defense and 889 EN defense, be it good, doesn't seem to jive with me compared to SOLUH's greater stability, barely different energy recovery, and slightly reduced weight. This could allow me to use extensions as Fukei suggested as well. How much of a difference can 100 or 200 make (not the 1000 or 800+ defensive stats cause that's obvious). Would the increase in stability reduce stun or is it not worth it?

 

As far as names are concerned: Oh.. oh well.

Edited by Mobius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think i tested stability a long time ago, and my results showed that if your AC stability was higher than the impact force of the weapon you were hit by, your stun recovery was noticeably reduced and the impact was lessened. if your stability is lower than the impact force, you are stunned much harder

 

the breakpoint for being stunned by a weapon is roughly 1500 impact force (VTFs are ~1300, zooks are 1500+) so having 1500 should be your minimum priority. one of the main weapons that gets used for its stun ability are sniper cannons which start at around 2600 and go up to 2900. grenades are upwards of 3000 but theyre slow and mostly used for splash damage.

 

so if my tests were accurate, you should either hit 2600 or not worry about it too much. youll find that its pretty hard to hit 2600 reasonably on a lightweight, which is because lightweights should focus more on avoiding hits rather than worrying about getting hit.

 

the reason why i asked you to tweak your AC before giving feedback was because i wanted to make sure you were confident in your choices in reg 1.40 rather than having the wrong numbers in 1.20 and wondering what the hell i am talking about.

 

starting with the core, instead of comparing SOLUH and WG, you should really be comparing SOLUH and EKHAZAR. youll notice that EKHAZAR is superior in just about every stat in comparison to SOLUH except for two main areas: weight and PA ret. if you only plan on getting hit by shell weapons with low PA piercing, SOLUH's higher PA ret will help you live longer than EKHAZAR will. however, if you (1) dont have the KP to support the higher PA ret (2) are probably going to get hit by lasers or snipers (3) want to have higher defense all around (4) will probably have your PA busted, then you want to use EKHAZAR. in many cases, EKHAZAR is the superior choice, with SOLUH being a more niche core built for very specialized CQC ACs who need to shave on weight and are confident in dodging rather than being hit.

 

WG core is for ACs who want to min/max on defense/speed and are fine without having extension weapons. its not the best in either category, but it is an extremely strong middle ground with the exception that you will not have the extra offense or defense that extensions offer. if youre running all guns at mid range, then WG core is an option worth considering.

 

compare the differences between JUDITH gen and LAHIRE gen and decide if LAHIRE is really worth the extra weight. 90% of the time for me, lahire isnt worth it over judith. sobrero is always an option for lighter ACs, but you really have to put the extra ENO to work in order to make up for its poor KP.

 

check out the stat differences between LATONA and JUDITH arms. youll notice that LATONA is better than JUDITH in almost every way possible except for a few marginal stat differences. i highly recommend you use these arms over JUDITH, as these are some of the best LW arms in the game. the other option for LW arms is LAHIRE, which is only used because of its insane arm mobility stat. this lets you attack people from angles that would otherwise be impossible, but LATONA has plenty of mobility as is.

 

because your AC is going to want to be close, you need to be faster than what you already are in order get in and maintain position better. LATONA mains are too slow unless you are extremely consistent with SSQB or are really good at long chains of chain QB, so you are going to want to use either ALIYAH or VIRTUE. ALIYAH is a very well-rounded speed booster, while VIRTUE is focused more on hit-and-run tactics.

 

side boosters have boiled down to a matter of preference for the most part in terms of what to use on lightweights. IMO, anything heavier than a midweight should almost always use HOLOFERNS, but with lightweights, you can choose between LATONA, LAHIRE, ORTEGA, ARGYROS, and HOLOFERNS. they each have their uses, but i think itd be easier to explain what each stat really does and let you decide.

 

- higher normal boost power allows you to strafe in one direction much faster if you have momentum. it doesn't do a whole lot if you are going to be changing directions constantly.

- the normal boost drain is actually more important than it seems, since it affects your overall strafing longevity. compare this value with your main booster's value and balance the two (higher normal drain on mains means lower normal drain on sides, and lower normal drain affords you higher normal drain on sides). its much more important to ACs that need to move sideways the most and less important to ACs that will be going forwards and backwards the most. LATONA lets you move sideways forever and ever, but its a weak booster and its only good at going sideways in one direction for a long period of time.

- power is how fast youll be going in that direction. pretty self explanatory, but its not as important as you'd think due to another stat

- drain is drain, but again it is still slightly dependent on another stat

- duration is the big stat here. its how long your QB burst lasts, and determines how far you will go with one QB activation. its hard to test exact energy drain values, but its also believed to affect your total QB EN drain, meaning a higher drain with a lower duration will be similar to a lower drain with a higher duration. this stat is the reason why HOLOFERNS is so good on heavier ACs and less important on lighter more maneuverable ACs, since it is able to push you for a longer period of time, and thus able to push heavier things farther. lighter ACs are much more affected by QB power and dont require the long duration, but can still make use of it. shorter duration can also be used to your advantage, since they dont move you as far sideways and allow you to move forwards faster and sooner. longer durations can be cut short though, so its never bad to have a longer duration.

- reload is the delay between each QB, which means longer reloads will not allow you to act as fast as shorter reloads will. this is the only reason why ORTEGA is ever considered, since it allows you to QB a lot in a shorter period of time than other sides will.

 

change your back boosters to LAHIRE so that you can maintain your targeting and positioning better. latona back boosters dont have enough kick to actually change your direction.

 

WEAPONS!

 

EC0300 is mostly a joke weapon in 1.40 because of its absurdly long reload time. in reg 1.00 it was one of the best back weapons because the reload was only about 100, but now its like over 300 and totally not worth it. you wont be using it a whole lot either if you are planning to be shooting people up close anyways.

 

consider switching it to either SAPLA or KAMAL, as these two back weapons are the best value per unit of weight for lightweights. theyre both extremely powerful and lightweight, have great synergy with other cqc weapons, and both have enough ammo to get you through a 1v1 and some BR4s.

 

VTFs are a good choice as long as you are mindful to capitalize on the downed PA of an opponent. if you dont follow up VTFs with more aggression, they won't be as useful as other weapons

 

motorcobra and SG0700 both require you to be very close to your opponent and both will not be effective until you can bust the PA of the opponent. fortunately, theyre both great tools at busting PA, but you have to make sure with SG0700 that you are making the most out of it, since they have low ammo values. youll need to stay in range for as long as possible, since once the PA regenerates, you have to dump more ammo to break it again. if you are having trouble getting motorcobra to hit or you need to shave weight for speed, cantua is a fantastic option because of its heightened bullet velocity at nearly half the weight. it doesnt have the offensive power that motorcobra has though, and you lose about 30 rounds from the magazine, but its balanced by the fact that you will have a higher accuracy. it still tends to get outclassed by motorcobra though, but its definitely an option worth considering.

 

swapping either arm weapon for an assault rifle will allow you to maintain a much more consistent damage at longer ranges with less concern over whether or not the opponents PA is busted (while still being able to capitalize on busted PA), making them very strong low-stress weapons. MARVE has comparable dps to SG0700 as well, but they lack the PA-busting capability that mgs and sgs have. 102 almost guarantees youll never run out of ammo before someone is dead, while marve and ar0700 make things dead real quick.

 

the pairing of your arm weapons and back weapons is very important, since you can use your back weapon and arm weapon at the same time for more diversity. if you changed your back unit to SAPLA, it would be more beneficial to use it with motorcobra and have VTFs with SG0700 because MG/grenade is a very solid death-from-above combination and VTFs do a lot of PA busting that your SG0700 wont have to do. if you went with KAMAL, itd probably be better to pair up your VTFs with motorcobra and have kamal/sg0700 since dual shotgun is a very deadly combo to heavier ACs and motorcobra/VTF will do good at tracking down faster ACs. always try to imagine your weapon selection as pairing up 4 weapons as opposed to pairing up 2 weapons twice.

 

i should let you know that 061JC with 061ANRM extensions and MOTORCOBRA is one of my favorite CQC combinations and you should definitely give it a shot if you still want to use the PM missiles. the 061jcs might seem weak but they are actually a very powerful missile launcher, especially combined with 061anrms. VTFs are still very strong missiles and do a better job of busting PA, but the pressure they exert does not have as much longevity and consistency as the aforementioned combo

 

oh, and ditch the hangar weapons. theyre pretty much dead weight since they arent effective at all, and the only hangars you should ever consider using are the blades (which can add anywhere form 500 to 2000 EN drain for something you will rarely use anyways)

 

holy shit thats a lot of text wtf nob

Edited by Bakuhatsu Pengin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...