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Yeah, but he's saying after a Shell Break. That's atk+ and spd+. He's saying in this case that'll be faster than Sceptile behind a sub. That seems possible to me since Cloyster isn't quite as slow as it looks. I'm not so sure though...iirc Sceptile is super duper fast. Like 120 base speed or something?
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i thought it only raised it 1 stage D:


thats fucking ridiculous


i bet even after a def reduction, cloyster still has enough to give phys attackers a problem


It's +2 Speed, +2 Attack, +2 Special Attack, -1 Defense, and -1 Special Defense.


That gives Cloyster some pretty good options (it's Atk and Sp. Atk can both be pretty good), but man that Sp. Def is low.

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i wouldnt switch sceptile in on a cloyster unless i had a free switch and cloyster didnt have a shell break active



Just say fuck it and go balls deep leaf storm dude. Should be faster than Cloyster even after shell break.

I though Cloyster's max speed was only up to 262? Sorry I'm not up to speed with these new pokemon games.

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it was already explained in this topic that cloyster with 1 shell break will outspeed a sceptile, and ice shard will go straight through subs

cloyster would have to be a fresh switch in or not have a shell break for sceptile to stand a chance against a faster poke with ice moves that jizz all over subs

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Nattorei > Cloyster.


Technician Hitmontop is pretty anti-metagame at the moment too, stopping the likes of Cloyster and Excadrill (and accompanying Tyranitar) in their tracks. Poliwrath resists all attacks, as does Empoleon. Roobushin has 416 attack at max, and deals a minimum of 75% with Mach Punch. Specially-based Lucario is more prominent this gen, and Vacuum Wave is an overkill even without a defense drop.


Positive natured scarf Pokemon with a speed stat of 100 or more outspeed it, and can revenge it; Garchomp, Infernape, Latios and a host of others can revenge it with ease.


Dream World Pokemon get released periodically. That basically means that as they are released by Game Freak, they are allowed in standard play. If you play on the Pokemon Online simulator, you will find that there is a Standard Wifi tier which is designed to reflect what would be "legal" on Wifi without the use of hacking devices, and a full Dream World tier, where players can use Pokemon with Dream World abilities whether they have been released or not.

Edited by Sandra Bullock
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Metagrime (Metagross) @ Lum Berry

Trait: Clear Body

EVs: 236 HP / 248 Atk / 20 Def / 4 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Agility

- Earthquake

- Bullet Punch

- Stealth Rock


Sour Diesel (Sceptile) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Overgrow

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef

Hardy Nature

- Substitute

- Leech Seed

- Leaf Storm

- Hidden Power [ice]


Blue Eyes (Gyarados) (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Intimidate

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- Dragon Dance

- Waterfall

- Outrage

- Bounce


Hungar (Gengar) (F) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Shadow Ball

- Thunderbolt

- Focus Punch

- Hidden Power [ice]


Derpnizzle (Flygon) (M) @ Choice Band

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Earthquake

- Outrage

- U-turn

- Dragon Claw


Annoying B. (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Wish

- Softboiled

- Avalanche

- Toxic



Edited by Neko Arc Chaos
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sceptile has access to unburden wtf?

since when was sceptile called M too?


in any case, overgrow and speed EVs with timid is the way to go with sceptile. sceptiles biggest selling point is that hes the fastest subseeder in the game

Okay I'll try that once I get on tonight.

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sceptile has access to unburden wtf?


Dreamworld ability.


Anyway, with an Unburden speed boost, the other EV set up might have worked, though some sort of berry (status, stat boost, healing) that activated it would have been best.


SubSeeder is probably the way to go, as noob said.

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