Genocide

That is true, you can hard-counter a person's design by building specifically to attack those areas of weakness. That's what I was referring to as macro-balance. The AC's as wholes are, for the most part, pretty balanced. But that doesn't address the parts themselves. Even in your example you were putting singular parts together to make an AC with a weakness, or in that exact case, multiple weaknesses. My gripe specifically was when the case is that the part itself is trying to fill a certain niche, when multiple parts are trying to fill that same niche. The things we as a community consider tier because of the stats assigned to the part end up beating out all (for practical purposes) other parts in that same category, thus lessening the part, and to a somewhat lesser extent, the AC diversity online. For instance, the cases I brought up regarding Hilbert and Argyros arms. Unless you are specifically wanting to equip Argyros, you're more likely to use Hilbert. Given the general mentality of people in a competitive environment, the parts themselves become a form of risk management. The risk of using Hilbert as opposed to Argyros is low, yet however when one would expect the pay off for higher risk to be greater, the pay off is exactly the same. So in effect, the part itself is getting shafted which is limiting the diversity, and IMO skewing the balance of the game. And that's just one of numerous examples I could bring up. And of course, that is using what the game gives you (a win as opposed to a loss), and not taking any kind of social factors into consideration such as prestige etc.

This, a thousand times this. I'll even use the MW2 example everyone is talking about. My preferred staples are suppressors with Ninja Pro, but I don't really see it as a reward for doing good, since I can fuck shit up even with out them, often times to the same degree that I do with them. All they do for me is make things a slight bit easier for me to go on a rampage, since if the enemy team has half a brain between them they'll know where I shoot from and how to lock such locations down easily. While I am trying to get to that point, the game is not harder, but definitely far more boring because I know I won't be able to get to those locations through a mob of enemy soldiers if they know where I'm shooting from as I move toward them. It becomes more of a, "How fast do you care to slog through this bull shit?" thing rather than a, "Congrats! You did a good job!" thing (which IMO, it never was to begin with, even in the first MW). Yeah, the parts get incrementally better for SP to provide that incentive to keep going, but honestly, how many of you actually need the high-tier shit to play the SP that's already ridiculously (and somewhat infamously I might add) easy? TBH, my incentive to keep going was to get the FRS so I could use it to put my bots on an equal footing (relatively) with those that already had 442 FRS. Shit, and even then that was a chore, I remember not playing Occupy Arteria Carpals on hard mode and going to MP with 441 FRS. I murdered people that had all the FRS regardless, lol sometimes I'll forget to use all 442 points and go into battle with a mech using like 360~ FRS. The thing that actually motivated me to get that last fucking FRS was the fact that I couldn't play my friend's ACs without it.

Yeah, that what's I was getting at originally when talking to PD. Of course the LAN environment will have better balance because there's little, if any, lag to contend with, and if there is it doesn't have nearly the impact on part selection as it would online. The netcode aspect was a good thing to bring up, but I feel that more or less falls in with the LAN v. Online argument. I feel the lag issue may have less to do with the netcode, and perhaps more to do with the actual logistics of the networking (unless they're the same thing, then just ignore this), but IIRC that topic was hammered to death over on ACO a few months back. Either way, I suppose this goes back to what PD said regarding From's (IMO) dubious reputation. Edit: I lol'd ^

@ PD: Yeah, guess I was, my bad. Wasn't really an attack though. Also, I had heard about that too, I was wondering what the hold up was on getting perhaps a handful of US players on the horn, then I realized From is more concerned with domestic sales, which makes sense given the fact that mecha in general is more popular in Japan than it is in the US. What I didn't know was the time frame, though I suppose none of that matters to us in the long run since our supposed chance to be included in the feedback was lost anyway. @ Niji: That doesn't really do shit. Case in point, MP-O203 is considered high tier versus the MP-O200. The way you make it seem is that the 203 should be the harder part to use when this just clearly isn't the case. In pretty much every situation, the 203 not only beats out 200 in damage dealt, but also ease of use. To make a cross category comparison, we'll say something like Spread Zook versus Sampaguita. The damage potential of the bazooka is greater than that of the shot gun (not going solely by attack power * ammo, but how hard it stuns and how quickly it would kill an AC as well), yet the shotgun is considered higher tier, but is also the easier of the two to use. I'll say it now, hit registration aside, which is sometimes dodgy for both of those weapon types, the Bazooka would beat out the Shotgun in a damage race every time. Another one of parts in the same category would be the small Omer laser rifle versus Antares, they're both supposed to be low-impact laser rifles, but not only is the Omer one considered higher tier, its also easier to use because it drains and weighs less. Haven't looked at the stats recently, but I think it might shoot faster too. Frame parts are harder to make these kinds of comparisons with, but I could use the already mentioned Hilbert v. Argyros case for arms, or I could make a new case with something like WG v. Lancel for legs. Same thing in this case too, WG is not only considered the higher tier, but is also easier to use. Or shit, Tellus v. Lancel would probably be the better comparison, but it comes down to the same thing there too. Lancel is the higher tier, but also far easier to use than Tellus (this especially is true if you consider Lancel v. Tellus for arms). Unless of course you were telling me what should be done and not what is. In which case I both agree with you and apologize if this seemed like an attack on you.

So why even make the point in this thread? I realize all you were doing is clarifying, but I still feel that it's out of place. Mini-mod douchebaggery aside, I think that yes, the parts, on a macro level are balanced. A Heavy can counter a Light, a Quad can counter a Tank, etc. However, I feel that on a micro-level there are some issues. For instance, you've got parts like MP-O203 and MP-O200. They're both the same type of part, a back mounted missile launcher, however one vastly outperforms the other to such a degree so as to make the latter virtually obsolete. The same is true with other parts in different categories, essentially this is a tier argument. However, the thing I dislike about having tiers, isn't so much tier-whores, who are (in most cases) trash players to begin with, but the fact that this will force people to build tier in order to compete unless they are skilled enough to overcome regardless. This is robbing the competitive environment of most of the diversity the game has to offer. Now, I never said anything about broken combinations, because honestly I don't give enough of a shit to complain, what I am saying though is that I consider diversity to be a balance aspect of the game. If you don't have all aspects balanced, then whatever it is we're talking about, be it a game or a breakfast, isn't truly balanced. Of course, the flip side of this point is that if we had all parts balanced, then it wouldn't really matter what you equip since all given combinations would yield some sort of archetype/s. So I think the conundrum we're going to hit here is how to make things balanced on both a macro and a micro level. To some of you, this might be apparent, in which case I'm asking you to please share, to others, this is not the case (myself included). To kind of illustrate what I'm getting at here, you've got two Heavies facing off, identical builds, except for the arms. One is using Argyros/A, the other is using Hilbert. Based on what we know from the way the game is now, logic would point to the Hilbert equipped heavy having the advantage because of the arm's exceptional stats in offense. While the player using Argyros/A is at a disadvantage. Competency of the pilots aside (which is always a factor, but one I'm disregarding for the sake of this argument since it is, from a developer's point of view, an uncontrollable variable), the AC using Hilbert should win, if only for the fact that Hilbert's level of performance is greater than Argyros/A's, even though both parts are trying to fill the same niche (which is an EN oriented HW arm). That's the kind of shit I don't like. I don't like seeing it, I don't like playing it either. If it were possible for me to provide my input directly to the development team, I'd try to make it so that situations like this don't arise without tossing the diversity of the game out of the proverbial window. But, like I said earlier, I don't really see how that can be done, so if someone does know, please speak up, if only for my own edification.

But that'd be true of damn near every game.

Once I found out, I switched and never went back, lol.

Those are both goods ones I had forgotten to mention. For some more info, the Cheyenne02 tracks somewhat better than a saline in close range. How exactly, I'm not sure, even though the stats say they share the same level of performance, I always find myself hitting more with Cheyenne02. CG-R500, that's superior to the XCG-B050 in just about every way, save for the fact you only fire one bullet after another, and not a shotgun-like spray of four.

Radars, yeah definitely. I usually reserve a slot for one on a hybrid or blader. My gunners though, I usually load them to the brim with firepower. That's not to say they wouldn't ever have a place there, but if I didn't tune my Radar Refresh up on them, then I'd have like 30 - 50 extra tunes laying around to do nothing with. I'll toss out another missile launcher too: MP-O200. It's pretty much a non-homo version of MP-O203 since the tracking isn't retardedly good, but they still track pretty decently. Add to that they are pretty much invisible as they close in unless your right in front of the dude when they fire and you've got an added plus. They also drain 400 points less than the 203's and will end up earning you a lot less enmity from your peers. Of course, got to watch out about getting them blown up in your face, but that's pretty much a factor with most missiles in a competitive setting. You can spam 'em too, if your so inclined. The MP-O200I is more or less the same shit in a different package, but for some reason they never end up getting me the same results the 200's give me.

I could make a SCLB +5, but I lack the required hardstone to upgrade the bow to +3 first. And wouldn't ya know it, I accidentally killed the vendor for Stonefang tunnel, FML.

Lol, Pulse guns. I'd say those are rated as trash because they are trash. If you're getting hit with pulse guns consistently, you need to put down your controller and stop playing. Idk what you'd all consider the following as, but I'd say their underrated (at least on PS3) because I hardly ever see other people using them aside from me; Musselshell back launchers. They do some kick ass damage when they hit, wreck PA almost the same as Dearborns, travel faster, have more ammo, weigh about the same as Dearborn02 and drain less (I think, I'd have to look the stats up). When I don't want to specifically equip a Dearborn launcher, this is what I will use, and often times I get much better results.

Lol not surprising. I've had urges to do the same following a couple of rounds where faggots were clipping through buildings because they were lagging so hard, yet the game read 3 or 4 bars for everyone in the room, including me. That and my fucking boolits aren't registering when they pass through dudes' livers, hearts and faces.

I knew Hustler One was a human pilot at one point, but what always confused me is that a combat, sort of Controller-esque A.I. shared his namesake. And the fact that his AC was mass-produced (MoA, Lost Field anybody?). I theorize he underwent H+ procedures and then was possibly digitalized, like his brainwaves were captured and an A.I. was patterned off of them, with some other directives besides, "KILL ALL HUMANS" overlaid. Or maybe Hustler One was an A.I. all along and the human body was an android used as a ruse. Anyways, AC would've been better if H1 said, "I'm gonna rip off your head and shit down your neck!" instead of, "Target verified, commencing hostilities." Lol, and "BALLS OF STEEL."

Yeah, I am aware of that, like you said though, totally obsolete.

Scar-L is godly. The Engineer's rifles just rape. Speaking of Engineers, all you need is one squad running two Engy's, one Assault and maybe a Medic (if you've got the fourth man, though I prefer Recon for the C4) and you can pretty much stop an armored attack dead in its tracks. As long as you've got one man alive you can hold down a position pretty well. I like planting C4 on tanks and then running off only to have them panic and get cap'd by my squadmates as they jump out. Then, we got free tankz. The wreckage too, if positioned correctly makes for an awesome, if temporary piece of cover.

If they brought back arm shields and auxiliary shielding in general, I think that'd be cool and would definitely help a kneeler, if that's even back in the series. Though, like everyone else pointed out from the pictures above, it definitely seems like this mechanic is back in the game. How exactly it works I guess remains to be seen. If they had cannons classified by weight (like some other person here said, sorry don't remember your name) it could make kneeling even more of a balance mechanic, especially if the armor plating on the pictured AC's leg is actually a defensive mechanism and not just graphics. You could then make the trade off of using lighter cannons that deal significantly less damage than their big-brother counterparts, but still retaining some (lessened) degree of mobility, but you might not be able to to penetrate the armor plating on a mech equipping heavier cannons and using shields to buff their defense while shooting from a stationary position. It could indeed bring some interesting new archetypes into the game. Edit: Just thought of this too, I'd like to see AC's knocked on their asses when they shoot something too big for the mech or when they get hit by especially powerful ordinance like grenades.

Any range, any combo, anywhere and any time, baby. Joking aside, my favorite is Close to Mid range combat with heavy emphasis on angle control and aerial maneuvering. This allows me to use pretty much everything since most weapons with the exception of a few perform well if not better in close or mid range battles. Shotguns, Machine Guns, Grenades, Snipers, Rails, Missiles, Lasers, you name it, I've probably killed someone somewhere down the line with it (except for Assault Cannon, that shit is trash). Frames, I'll use what ever strikes my fancy. Recently I've gotten into the habit of designing things for looks, which, given the way I usually test and finalize designs is a bit of a bitch, lol.

If anything it wouldn't be because of an AoE. The only EN weapons with an AoE effect are Plasma and Kojima guns. The two lasers simply means there are more projectiles, since they are fired simultaneously and are close together in flight they behave like a single projectile with a wider hit area. If you were a bad shot I think it'd be possible to just have a single laser hit, and thusly deal damage consistent with that of a single impact.

I think that's because EN weapons are inherently more precise than solid weapons, with the exception of pulse weapons. I bet pulse guns would scrape PA, albeit to a lesser extent than shell weapons, just because of the way they shoot. Then again, even if they did, it's a moot point from a practical aspect since pulse weapons are so bad already. If they were better, I'd use them, but they're pretty horrible. As for SC's doing scrape-AoE damage, yeah they do, it's only like 100 or so AP worth of damage, and your shot has to hit the ground VERY close to where their AC is. Observing the same for rails, I couldn't say, I've not seen it though that doesn't rule out the possibility.

Whats the deal with the bird's nest in 4 - 1?

This a mech I just made: Chasis Judith|Soluh-core|063An03|Latona Fs-Judith|Gn-Lahire Latona|Latona|Holofernes|Judith OB Labiata|047ANSR|Musselshell|MP-O601JC|061ANRM|empty|Lare Stabilized (0, +2) [Gan01-SS-HSS0 on Head R] Paint All Frame R/G/B Main: 40/0/0 Sub: 170/170/175 Support: 0/0/0 Optional: 255/0/0 Joint: 0/0/0 Device: 0/0/0 Eye: 255/156/0 All Weapon Main: 110/114/118 Sub: 53/52/51 Support: 46/48/50 Optional: 36/48/40 Tunes 50 in: EN Cap., EN Out, Radar Refresh, QB, Side QB, Head Stability 42 in: Maneuverability 34 in: Leg Stability 30 in: MS Lock 20 in: Lock Speed 16 in: Turning Speed Name is a reference to an inside joke a couple friends and I made on MW2. Edit: Shit, forgot stabilizers.

Lol, Ext. Mags on a .50 cal would be redonkulous. The trigger-happy OHNOESIMGUNNADIECUZHESNUKUPONMEH spamming would be rage inducing.

ECM works by fuzzing out the opposition's radar in a specified area of effect. Different dispensers have different areas of effect. Plasma weapons perform the same function as well. They can be useful for concealing one's location at a distance in case of the on board ECM (They're the equivalent of Crow in this generation [but make you somewhat more visible to eye sight]) or for creating a fuzzed area while in combat to facilitate maneuvering around an opponent's back side. They often don't last too long, so you need to plop down multiple ECM's (again, depending on the dispenser) to keep your area of effect up. Anti-ECM is a stat that affects (I'm not sure on this) either how long your radar is affected by ECM, or if your radar is affected at all. AC's using FCS's with high Anti-ECM stats will be resistant to this form of warfare. The Anti-ECM stat can be dramatically enhanced with the inclusion of a back mounted radar array. So in using ECM, it's a bit of a crap shoot as to whether or not it will even be effective. Most times its not worth the slot, as most people can easily spot the emitters on the ground and will simply move out of the area of effect. Also note, the ECM only affects radar, and not targeting ability (at least as far as I've noticed). The on board emitters are in most cases more useful than those shot onto the ground, but the planted emitters are still less stressful on an AC's over all energy and weight capacities (except in the case of I think like two parts [more than likely just the huge one made by BFF]). Either way, unless you know how to use it and use it proficiently, I think you'd be better off with the extra firepower the relation missiles give you.

That's the entire point of having squads in the first place, to have a mobile spawn point, in the case of your base being camped out you can get a person out, have people spawn on him and launch something of a counter offensive. And yeah, I am familiar with the spawning for BC1, and I do agree, it was ridiculous. But that dynamic has been present since the computer games. Spawn camping and shitty spawning in general is nothing new to BC, DICE just does it in every game. The lack of friendly fire is heartening in that you can't be TK'd for the vehicles though. I guess that's a step in the right direction.

My gripes from my brief experience with the demo: What the fuck, four man squads. This shit was a hassle in the first one, we'd get a four man unit, and then our fifth, sixth and sometimes even our seventh man would be auto-thrown on the opposite team. Sure it made for some decent competition, but if DICE wants my respect as a developer they need to really step up their game. If they start pulling the same stupid bullshit they did in patching BFBC1 and BF2, I will be fucking pissed, to say the least. Also, not noticed this yet, but if the mics cut out midgame and dont come back, or if the frame rate drops dramatically for the entire length of the game, I will be ragequitting and snapping the disc (if I buy it) in half. Other than that, typical BF fair, lots of vehicle camping. And I'll anticipate TKing for vehicles and/or arty as well.