Desert Fox

Speaking personally, I found FA a lot more fun. AC4 just wasn't as enjoyable to design or play for me. I played FA first.

1st: 12 2nd: 6 3rd: 19

I agree completely. I had much more fun designing and playing NB than LR, (than NX too) although I still didn't like the heat mechanics, and there was a lot of stuff to better balance.

Just tried it in AC3 and it seems to track a lot better than SL, maybe I was dealing with client lag, who knows. Probably also the SL increased speeds from MOB. NX accuracy was crazy especially with severe heat. NB was my preference overall in terms of accuracy. Close to NX but better able to dodge and heat a bit less severe. More onus on the dodger to dodge, rather than the attacker to make it hit. Sort of like AA in a way. I hated NX/NB RS with boosted lockbox size from WS L guns though, that was lame and like you say point, click, hit. No boosting of lockbox sizes with L guns would've suited me better. (even then RS should've had a bit longer reload) I enjoyed the speed and movement in AC3/SL, I just would've liked more gun accuracy, particularly in SL - AC3 being slower helps and I feel the gun tracking is a bit tighter and more accurate.

Thanks for the links, the MOC3 fights are interesting to look back on, if not as interesting to watch due to the flat open spaces. Sandman/Karl is pretty fun to watch. Franko didn't use the super shell def arms I see, so he could be hurt more easily by shell weapons, I think his heavy was totally legit. Noticed for the GNL you actually have 3 levels of use, 1st shooting no double lock or too far, 2nd level hold double locks, 3rd position or time it (like when opponent changes directions strafing there's sometimes a brief window) so the shooting no double lock still hits. In SL when you hit client lag it becomes a dice roll with cannons so you have to use that more and take your chances on a lot more iffy shots. XCG20 was unreliable when I played LCC in SL. Maybe it was the same for most guns and I noticed it more due to limited ammo, but I remember it being wonky - sometimes it would lead the target, and sometimes it wouldn't. Didn't seem to matter, it did it even when double locked. You'd shoot and sometimes it would lead the target and sometimes it would shoot where they had been. I remember one match we played LCC redzoned and was in my sights at short (nearly CQ) range and 3 shots in a row missed because it didn't track, even though he was double locked. To me, that kind of lack of reliability is messed up. Other times but inconsistently it would lead him and nail him with surprising accuracy. (last shot in one of the following videos) I used it anyway, and wanted to like that gun - I used it to make mid and lite-heavy SL jousters, but it was too inconsistent to hold up with the top tier guns, it's hard to deal with pressure situations or comeback if suddenly your big gun misses several shots due to not tracking at critical moments. Here's a couple vids to illustrate:

Franko's XCG20 use would've been interesting to see, it tracked for shit in SL, (like often a 50-75% odds will it track or not track) my impression is it would've tracked better in AC3, tracking all around seems better in AC3, although I'm not sure of that vs humans. Harder to support XCG20 without proper options too. I figured GNL in AC3's open stages would be pretty dominating, whereas in AA GN210>GNL (though NIGHT mitigates this...) Quads were pretty slow on the ground in AA and Sandman's AC was essentially paper-mache for armor. He was pro with it and had top tier weapons, but I think the AC itself is at a disadvantage vis-a-vis OB GN210 jousters and Oliver style light Sawa AC for example, just because of the grounding of quads sans boosting to use the cannons. Someone dedicated to hovers in AA-SL would probably be a better example.

I remember back in the day we were aware of that and for the most part everyone just refused to do it as virtually everyone considered it lame. It's the whole win-no-matter-how mentality that pervades too much of everything these days, most noticeable in sports. We didn't want to play chip damage and run clock for a lame timeout, we wanted to blow up the other guy. Like you say if you can win the lamest way possible, who gives a shit? That's no fun to play, no fun to play against and no fun to watch. Only people with fragile egos will get so hung up on winning they will go with maximum lame all the time - can't win by skill so they'll try to take skill out of the equation. Like sports where they'll injure an opposing player who's better than them. Frankly I didn't mind when people picked any particular style, as long as there was a reasonable chance of winning by adapting playstyle to it. It was the ones where you couldn't adapt to it where we got into bans. (CROW) And sometimes there was no easy fix so we put it up to people not to be lame. Bans discussions essentially boiled down to how much advantage did it give and could it be reasonably countered without fighting fire with fire or being specifically hard-countered. Also had to give significant advantage over all or almost all designs. That's why we were so hung up on balancing parts, with proper balance it wouldn't be possible to go super lame and boost your win count significantly despite lack of skill. You'd be able to try but you wouldn't get enough advantage to matter. This was typically true anyway for the most part, with the bans we made in place. With the more refined skillsets nowadays there might be holes, but I think they were still pretty decent given what From gave use to work with. Part of designing was taking the archetypes into consideration, it was often up to the designer if they felt they needed to maximize equal footing (MOC3 Watcher) or stay true to their style and accept likely more disadvantage. (MOC2 Sandman - not sure best example, but you get idea) I still feel PS2 era AC missed its potential by not being online. (plus all the part balance fixes they should've had) The old crews of the day, many who were in geographically separate areas being able to play each other regularly with some kind of spectator mode would've been sweet. Could've had fairly regular tourneys among the forum regulars and lots of entertaining vids for vets to watch other vets in action, and for newbies looking to enhance their skills. Ah well.

I'm almost sure FLEET wasn't banned until LR, at least on the forums. It's on my SL staple and no one batted an eye about it in the day, I'm sure I'd remember. I recall the discussion about it centering on FLEET + HUESO in AC3, with the majority deciding HUESO were the problem vs FLEET. LR was the first AC I remember where we agreed it was necessary to ban a booster across the board, that was a big deal and some people thought it was ridiculous until they saw it in action. RF220 was the best gun due to the huge box (should've been standard), plus overall deep killpower plus ability to heat. I see it like 008 core in SL, it's best but the margin's not so large - clearly best doesn't mean needs ban for me. I had no human vs back in AC3 era, so I never got to test it. I remember it was the RF220/HZL50/HUESO/FLEET that was AC3 uber-AC. I'm pretty sure HUESO was the only part banned, at least initially. We decided the weapon combo was best, but like 008 core, not so much better than other options it needed banning. Maybe you guys decided that later in the Cali groups. It'd be easy to put at least some limits on heavies by banning the heaviest arms, but the speed boost leaves the end result pretty similar. If I remember right, everyone back in the day decided we didn't want to go down that road and so we just collectively said they were lame and put it on disdain to discourage. I do remember ammo to crack the superheavies and tanks being a concern when designing. It just got more ridiculous in SL with solid shields and PEGASUS. You could try and deal with weapon inaccuracy in AC3-SL by limiting boosters to weaker ones, I've been messing around with them for fun in the arena, but then GNL and/or LQ15 are super-dominant.

EDGE are more nimble and agile than mid legs, even if stats are same or better. Jump higher, run faster, and I think turn faster. I noticed when I put my staple on lights legs in AC3 and NX recently. Harder to handle though, usually drainier and less armored - unless you're going really light or with something that empties fast, it's pretty hard to mount a mid-weight or heavier missile pack and get enough of a connect rate to make up for the speed loss. CROW was banned and definitely the worst offender. HZL50 wasn't but could be by MG800 ban logic. Was it HUESO, or just with FLEET banned? I forget. RF220 didn't need banning in my opinion, at all. Blades would fix the super defense problem to a degree, the heavies had more limited mobility without MOB cores and higher weight - and without HZL50 they wouldn't be nigh un-bladeable. I dunno, the AC3 maps were lacking - Wasteland was ok but you can't see much taking out a big part of the fun, Structure was ok but screws my staple verts or the dual verts. :/ Military Base, Trene, Crest Base, and the inside crest base (forget the name) and the tall pipes stage add a lot to the SL vs battles. Lag screws it up a lot though. Can't remember if Trene was in AC3 as a stage. The green blade is basically the 3-claw from AA, though admittedly it looks more like Wolverine with 3-claw so its cooler.

Thanks, I was curious. HZL50 was the L arm MG800 of AC3. Struck me as a gentlemen's ban. Without it in play, everything else for L arm is reasonably viable. After the initial ooo-ah, it seemed dumb. Cool laser swords or an awkwardly lobbed bomb. Blades probably could've used a bit of a boost though, maybe 10-15% more damage - it's more obvious when using the first two swords, they are plain weak for the effort.

Well blading's fun, even if HZL is way more effective. Btw, anyone know what Watcher's staple Owl was running AC3 era? I'm curious if he was using the HZL or a blade. Can emulators run the old games (AA-SL) and play people online? You'd think someone would be able to hack that and fix SL's client lag if they had a mind to, or some up and coming game designer could do that as an exercise or something. If there was interest, which there probably isn't...

So I played through AC3 again, and did the arena thing with various ACs and a few things struck me. Gameplay really was a lot of FUN. Just boosting around with all the old techniques is still really fun and cool. Old AC games were hard. You have to just grit and keep going with your crummy AC performance until you can cobble some money for not-awful parts. (especially boosters and generator) I admire From's forcing you to do that slowly, to enhance appreciation of upgrades. It's a bit funny having to OB drift in starter missions just to get half decent speed. Blading was good, but blading with OP-I should've been the default with HZL50 in play. Tracking was just so much better with most heads and FCS's than I remember, totally don't get why they messed it up for SL. OB was drainy, but stages and areas were smaller so it wasn't that noticeable. HZL50 needed some tweaking, more weight, less ammo, slower reload. Maybe all of the above to a degree. OP-I was actually fun even without cannons, although obviously still a game breaker. The VS stages kinda sucked, no open skies with cover. Weapon tracking felt tighter, but it might be because ACs were slower with no MOB. Double locks felt a little faster. Kinda feel it actually was tighter, to a degree. Definitely had the capability - as OP-I Sawa guy clearly shows. It was fun to see all the badly designed ACs in the arena, then as you get closer to the top you can see noticeable improvement in the designs, and at the top equipped with some of the best weapons. Fun to mess around with the starter AC, Gundam ACs, and other giant robot lookalikes. Or self-challenges like using the starter AC frame etc. Potential It's a bit disconcerting there was a bunch of potential they still never went anywhere with. Among other things... - Advanced tutorials by arena Ravens (allies?) once you reach various ranks. OB drift/glide, OB run, OB jump. - Level/Stage editor to let players design their own.

Actually I just beat this guy again recently with a few bots. I messed around with starter AC frame, limited it to 002 boosters and RF150/RFL150, the starter or 2nd missile pack and the R24 extensions. Takes longer than you'd think with that monster shell def L shield he's got. Just a chipping game. One of those challenge yourself type exercises - Nameless, #1 and Corpse Maker are fairly rough with that setup, due to their aggressiveness and high RoD with OP-I AMS.

L solid shields were insane because they were designed for part breaking, even though they don't break... Speaking of which playing SL the other day I had my BZ30 get broken, hadn't remembered seeing that before. Plus the benefits are almost the same as L en shields with zero drain. The solid shields should have NX/NB style stats, with the en shields having unchanged SL stats with maybe 1/2 or 3/4 the drain usage. Not sure how viable it is, but with the 90 coverage en shield you can trade shots using LQ15 until your en runs too low, then you have to try and figure out how to take the shield down without taking too much damage. Not sure how workable it is against a competent opponent, but it might have some feasibility. Cuts damage noticeably but not hit-brick-wall of defense. Anyway it's fun to mess around with some of the old stuff and see if it's workable, or how broken it really was. WALL is pretty borderline, it's almost acceptable in my opinion unless on the already powerful designs. The block rate seems to be around 10-20% against the XC50 or LQ15, not sure if it's the same for all guns.

It's AC3, not SL. The HZL works fine, blading is just cooler and more fun. Plus blading isn't not so wonked as SL.

Fixed, my bad.

Well, I've been playing the old AC games and doing a little experimenting in SL. Missile Boats Among a few things that came up, SL missile boats might be somewhat viable, not top tier but maybe able to hold their own in casual play. (figuring no anti-designing as that could shut them down hard) L Energy Shields The L energy heat shield with 90 coverage is actually pretty decent for supertanks, but hard to use. Best way seems to be while using the LQ15 and trading shots at longer range, but managing when to keep it up and decent energy reserves is tricky. WALL The WALL solid shield is borderline usable if not on a megaheavy or supertank, since the coverage is only 50 and even then in play it seems like less. Still probably broken, but arguably ok for casual play if not exploited too heavily. GREY KNIGHT Armored mid, the original principle was max shell def and only the SHADE/XC90. (and hangars if applicable) The solid shields in SL are pretty broken but the WALL with only 50 coverage I'm going to run on it. In NB where the design came from, the arms have to be the shell def arms to minimize en drain, as it runs the FLEET/TP with NX/NB lower gen outputs and higher drains in general - here the drainier but more armored TIN will work fine. I'd have preferred a core AMS, but the options are more important. I don't OB much, just work the dodging with the FLEET. I thought maybe restricting WALL to EO cores might be a fix, but it's not. CRUST GROA TIN SRVT FLEET SRA02 ROZ CR14 DD10 R: A10 L: - R: XC90 L: WALL Options Screens, Stability, Turning, E++, RTE, CLPU Color 80,80,80 25,25,25 125,125,125 75,75,200 200,200,200 CLEAR SKIES RJ missile boat, I think it might be decent at holding its own, although its not top tier. Verts are for tank and heavy cracking. SKYEYE 008 DHM68/04 008 MARE ND8 ROZ SA44 DD10 R36 HA40-8 VM36-4 Options Screens, Stability, ECND, TRN, Lock Speed, Missile Jammer Color Light blue on white and darker blue COWARD (working name) VEN RAY DHM68/04 KRT MARE ND8 ROZ SA44 DD10 R36 OC30 OC30 Options Screens, Stability, TRN, E++, RTE, Radar Range MANTIS Shoehorned the RAY, LQ15 and GNL on the SEV, and only guns that fit are the HGs. Fast but flimsy, this AC is a bit hard to pilot as it's slim margins for error. VEN RAY GALE SEV 002 WS03 ROZ SA44 DD10 R: LQ15 L: GNL15 R: HG80 L HGL100 Options Screens, Stability, Turning, E++, En RoF, FCS Color Green

Playing AC3 again, and went with a light version of Desert Fox. Lights are a lot more agile and faster than mids than I realized, (even with not much weight difference) and it seems easier to do a lot of the advanced booster and OB techniques (or maybe they're more necessary), gliding/drifting, jumping, running. The light is fast enough to OB in after firing missiles to go for a blade before or as the missiles hit. It's a lot more fun with the blade version, slashes feel so much cooler, but has super flimsy armor. For a more vanilla version, swap the REX arms for MARTE and add HZL50. Much more effective but more boring. It kind of sucks blading was pretty well done in AC3, but HZL50 pretty much kills it for vs. HZL50 needs some of an increased reload (+50-100%), less ammo (30) and increased weight (~400) - maybe all of them. Noticed the increased targeting and blading from OP-I should actually be the defaults for blading in my opinion, in both AC3 and SL... It's quite a lot of fun to play around with the blade version, or give either OP-I, (firing missiles in mid air, OBing, staying in the air, firing more missiles, then OBing and blading - still in the air, haha) or with the Moonlight versions below. (hits a lot easier with the increased length) Desert Fox 0 - MK2 & MK3 TIE NER REX/MARTE EDGE FLEET ST-6 ROZ SA44 DD10 R24 R: - L: VM36 R: GS56 L: 2551/HZL50 Options Screens, Stability, ECND, Turning, lock speed Color 170,120,30 200,185,120 70,30,15 100,100,200 70,30,15 I played around making variants, the below is closest to the SL version but has the Moonlight, it isn't as responsive or agile as the one above being mainly a mid frame (although this gives a better laserblade swipe) and the other version on a light has no relation missiles but Moonlight, (literally no way to jam them on) those missiles would be pretty key for vs, much more than a blade. Desert Fox - Moonlight SKYEYE NER SOL/REX ORDER/EDGE FLEET ST-6 ROZ SA44 DD20/DD10 R24/- R: - L: VM36 R: GS56 L: MOONLIGHT Options Screens, Stability, Turning, E++, RTE, CLPU or OP-INTENSIFY Was playing around in AC3, and using OP-I on my normal AC works pretty well in vs, the Moonlight becomes quite a bit easier to use - although against a person with the howitzer, not so sure. Mostly I just like being able to shave off 1000-2000 AP if an opportunity presents and the howitzer just doesn't have the same style and decisive hits. Not sure how much of a difference it makes vs a human opponent - probably the OP-I helps a lot.

Just a quick note, the VS stages this AC would use most are Ancient City and the Highway, (in that order) due to having more cover. Toyed with having vert shoulder relations, but the relation ammo depth seems too shallow. Also the current setup is almost identical to the AC loadout of weapons from SL-NB, dual shotguns, 1 vert and R24 relations. (LR made the setup hard to use) It's more recognizable with the current loadout. Somewhere I unlocked bigger shotguns so I put those on. They're heavy but the extra damage is a big plus. Likely really difficult to use against ACs on the fast side. They do punch through PA quick and then rip AP pretty well if you can keep up the offense with full blasts connecting, without getting flattened yourself. I have no illusions this AC probably isn't competitive, trying to run people down and close to CQ seems likely to be inordinately difficult, (based on matches against a few AI ACs) especially quads, RJs and other lights. Particularly if they're airborne - given how fast I can boost around in this AC, closing to CQ and getting off good shots with the shotguns is likely very difficult. (and unfun, like SL blading) The only saving grace here is the AC may be so hard to hit itself if it can keep to cover. Not sure how that would play out against a good player with rifles - not well I'm guessing. Changed arms for higher maneuverability and recoil control, and noticed after it was a good call since the shotguns have more recoil than BZs. (seems dumb) Don't know if recoil control matters much anyway, since shotguns normally only get one blast at high speed. Precision also shouldn't matter a ton since shotguns need CQ to be effective. Maneuverability seems to matter a lot though, good for attack from above, if you can get lined up right and a sweet spot close range. Which HGs are best? I'm more drawn to the highest stun-impact ones, but another one has about 100 more bullet velocity which is probably more important. Neither seem very accurate, (require CQ?) is that normal with light arms? Core and legs are mainly - stats are ok and they look better than most other light parts. I just won't use parts that look ugly or terrible cosmetic-wise. Is it worth having an Assault Armor OB? Do people actually use it? I'm thinking it might be a tactic to blast out heavies or tanks PA, then rip with the shotguns directly to AP, since getting hit likely means you're dead anyway in a flimsy AC like this. OB stats are much better on pure OB boosters, but OB seems basically useless except for a few missions where super long OB helps finish quicker. I probably need a second missile instead of the radar if the AC is to be properly designed for VS (even if not very competitive) but I'm not sure what to go with. Toyed with maybe just adding a second vertical missile, but I have no idea what else would be effective for a light in FA VS. My AC can just run away from missiles fairly easily so I'm not sure if any are that great. The old design principle was 1 vert and relations, and if they ran dry just finish with shotguns (quite reliable) and speed. Here since shotguns feel much harder to use, I can spare the weight for it, 2 can be fired simultaneously and missile ammo depth is shallower due to automatic volleys, it feels like maybe I should have a second missile? I'm open to suggestions. Changed the FCS too, since I dropped the hangar blade. Overall designing for VS is probably similar to SL, rifles for reasonable accuracy at mid range or closer, ease of use, good spammability with deep ammo reserves. Toss in some higher accuracy guns like sniper cannons and rail guns, and maybe the odd laser cannon. That's probably the top tier VS weapons in a nutshell.

Ok thanks for the big text wall, I don't agree with a lot of the parts summaries since the differences seem exaggerated, but it gives me a decent feel. Does stability even matter on lights or are you screwed regardless? I wonder if I'm achieving anything by trying to get a bit higher stability, or if it won't actually matter at all. Does head affect stability like it used to, by multiplier, or is it just a straight number now? Are there any magic numbers for stability? I recall in AA with two mid legs one set would get paralyzed by HGs and the other with slightly more stability wouldn't. Also how big a diff does def make? Many parts seem like they get a big def boost in shell or en, but lose a big chunk of AP - is this often like an equivalent offset? Obviously def matters more the more there is but on a light I'm inclined to think AP will matter more, or neither will make a big difference.

Ok, so I've been playing around with FA more, and experimenting a little with quads and heavies. I've noticed the big laser cannon seems pretty good, and I'm presuming it's because of it's high PA penetration. Beyond the regular good attack power, accurancy and bullet speed. What does PA attenuation and rectification actually mean? Which is more important? From what I can tell PA basically blunts damage as a buffer. And is it just me or are cannons nearly useless vs fast ACs? And does arm maneuverability more or less mean how good your arms are at acquiring locks fast, or in a bigger window? Does arm firing stability matter much for non-MGs? Or at all? I'm also feeling most missiles aren't very good except verts, hi-acts and nukes.

It's reg 1.2 I just realized. Apparently blades are crazy in it, which I can agree with. Blade range is almost stupid - but it's better than crappy blades at least, if you're only playing missions. It's a bit funny seeing gigantic engines of destruction explode in huge fireballs after you swipe a tiny section of metal. Don't see much diff in the arms, six of one... I'm also using the Moonlight a lot for fun slicing and dicing in the missions. Grenades are fun with all the little guys getting blown up, but they're small bullets compared to AC3-LR. Not sure I'd enjoy VS in this style AC game, but the missions are reasonably fun now that I'm getting more used to the controls and have better weapons, parts and boosters. Much more fun than 1P LR at least in actual gameplay. Not liking the locked into paths to unlock all the missions though, where's AC1 game designers? Beat the game then can play all the missions, what's so hard about that? Shotguns don't seem very good, too little damage and too long to work, and way too much effort to hit in VS. Whereas snipers and rifles seem like they'd dominate. Not sure about the cannons, I'm still trying to figure out if there's any real reason to use arm guns other than old habits. Tunes I mostly stuck on the generator, QB and FCS.

I'm sure this isn't very good weapons wise at least, but sticking to the same basic principles... For missions I grab the heavy plasma rifle and the Moonlight if I'd rather rip and tear like a badass. Desert Fox LEFT: OSAGE03 RIGHT: OSAGE03 SHOULDER: BELTCREEK03 SAMPAGUITA SAMPAGUITA LARE LARE HEAD: SOLUH-HEAD CORE: SOLUH-CORE ARMS: SOLUH-ARMS LEGS: LG-JUDITH FCS: 063AN05 GEN: SOBRERO MAIN BOOST: AALIYAH BACK BOOST: LB-LAHIRE SIDE BOOST: LB LAHIRE OB: SOBRERO Tunes: QB forward, QB side, FCS lock, FCS missile lock, arm maneuverability, Booster vertical, Booster forward Stabilizers, whatever. Threw a bunch on, no idea what they do.

I'm just realizing after seeing in some videos that you can use QB as a turn booster instead of just for movement. The controls I'm still having some issues with, trying to tap A instead of R trigger for boosters, and not being too swift with using the QB-turn boost. Still find QB way too spastic and spammy. Also finding it really annoying trying in the vertical boosting - you drop off a ledge then it's almost like you're instantly pulled I was using the mid with the laser rifle to start I guess. Anyway after a few more times I said screw it and just cheezed dual rifle on the QB spastic spammers in the WG mission. That and the mission at the end where you fight 2 ACs in the tight confines I also find really annoying - it's alternate mission routes and in one there's a blader who seems to never miss and kill you in one shot with the Moonlight. Watched a few vids, and somehow in those the guys can drift around without getting hit and the enemy doesn't seem to QB as much, whereas when I play it feels like if I stop for 1-2 seconds I'm dead. Ended up spamming dual back chainguns with QB until I didn't die and it got the job done. I did like the arena has ACs that might be representative of old Raven Haven players - or maybe not. The Owl, Engineer and Fox emblem all make me think of Watcher, Ky Kiske and me. Picked up the Moonlight and put my build on a light and it's crazy as ever for missions or slow ACs. That and the heavy Plasma rifle which kills most stuff in 1 shot, anything it doesn't, 1-2 swipes of the Moonlight will. Light ACs seem to get a stab now. Blading seems insane with the distances covered with the right FCS. Seem to have figured out better booster combo too, mostly as much power as possible without too insane drain. I'll post the AC in designs.

Must be 1.0, I'm not online. Thought it was spastic with the starter boosters, since I've juiced them, yeesh, spastic frenetic and frantic boosting around like crazy while spamming high attrition weapons seems like it'll be the big thing. I don't even want to think how useless BZs and grenades and heavy weapons are at those speeds. Blading is better at least, although it might be too good. Still prefer a slower and more calculated offense with bigger guns more viable. I'm just dual shotgunning it spamming verts and hi-acts through the arena, although once I got the back gatling I dual'ed those up to chomp through ranks faster. Dual shotguns don't seem very effective, but they get the job done once I get the speed boost from dumping my missiles. Tough to use though. The starter AC that's blue seems like most other parts are actually worse. I'm still running more or less the original frame, only improved the boosters in the last or second to last mission. Do stabilizers do anything or is it just pointless complexity? What's the simplest one to use on a mid or light? PA seems similar, can't be bothered figuring it out, and ignoring it seems to work fine so far. Pointless unnecessary complexity. I noticed too that the parts are almost all fancy looking (and uglier, in my opinion) upgrades of old part models. I'm still working on a way to reliably take down the super-speed spastic ACs in the mission you do with White Glint on your side. I can missile it up and then gun down one, but the second spastic one is too hard to hit and bring down before I'm whittled out. To beat Glint on the opposite mission I had to cheeze it up spamming dual rifles because almost nothing else hit reliably once my missiles were dry. (lame game design) Miss some kind of pointer in the missions too, it's not always clear where to go or what to do. Needs an old school "TARGET" with arrow in some instances. Talk about lame with only 4 stages for VS, only 2 of which are decent.