The Aviation Thread

[Exorcet]

That's why we've got the specialized strike aircraft going around hunting SAM's rather than lobbing zillions of ALCM's from B-52's. The latter is a really good strategy on the opening day of the war when you know or think you know where most things are, and those things aren't too mobile. After that, it's less effective.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Well punching holes into anyone's air defense really is the initial key.

 

Once that's done, suppression of air defenses can be more or less the call of the day, versus outright trying to counter it. If you get what I'm saying.

[Exorcet]

http://f-16.net/news_article4458.html

 

F-35 reaches target speed. Now all the "It only goes Mach 1.3!" idiots can shut up. But they are only a small subset of idiots.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

How fast does the F-22 top out at? I know it's got supersonic cruise at like Mach 2.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

The listed top speed for it is like...Mach 2.25-2.5. I don't remember specifically, sorry. The supercruise isn't Mach 2 though, its like Mach 1.75-1.85, but again I don't remember. Last I check it's real top speed isn't public knowledge, so I got nothing there.

 

after a quick glance through the 6 pages, I tend to agree with Raor on just about everything covered. Not that it matters but I figured I'd throw it out there.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I wonder why the "super-cruise" is such a big selling point for the F-22.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

um supercruise became really en vogue in the early 2000s which is the big thing (maybe earlier but idk...I didn't hear about it all the damn time til like 02-05), but it actually is kind of a neat feature since it basically makes everyone elses' top speed equal to your operating speed.

 

So basically any asshole bomber going top speed to bomb something gets intercepted by you going the same speed but with the major advantage of it being considered your combat speed. So you don't have to slow down to blow it up or anything. Almost all other planes gotta slow down to fight, especially bombers.

 

I guess you could just say it makes your combat speed faster, which is always fun.

 

Oh yeah, and if you rock stealth you don't ever want to touch the afterburners so there's that too.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

So it'f for interceptor work?

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Yeah pretty much. I mean supercruise lets you go places faster so the f-22 could in theory get to a target more efficiently without spending extra time, but the f22 is an air superiority plane at its core, and I think the more obvious use is in fact making sure noone can ever get away from you, even if they don't know they are being chased.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I suppose that's really actually pretty useful for the roll(s) the F-22 is supposed to fit.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

F22 must fit many rolls

[Shirtless Crackhead]

It does, but they generally stay within the realm of air superiority and stealth roles.

[Exorcet]

How fast does the F-22 top out at? I know it's got supersonic cruise at like Mach 2.

 

As PD said it's classified. Mach 2 is probably a safe minimum assumption, but aerodynamics is only one factor in determining top speed. Materials are really important, and the reason why we've been hitting Mach 2 since the 60's, but not really going past Mach 3 is because the gain isn't worth the trouble on the materials end.

 

So basically any asshole bomber going top speed to bomb something gets intercepted by you going the same speed but with the major advantage of it being considered your combat speed. So you don't have to slow down to blow it up or anything. Almost all other planes gotta slow down to fight, especially bombers.

It's not that you would have to slow down otherwise. Since the F-111 and B-1, supersonic low altitude bombers haven't been uncommon. Also, the F-15 was designed to intercept and launch the AIM-7 (and later 120) at bombers from a Mach 2.5 dash. The problem is you could count your remaining fuel time in seconds if you tried doing that.

 

Speed gives you energy, which is always in high demand in air combat. More energy in the plane means it imparts more to its missiles and that it has more energy to maneuver. You could estimate maximum energy using a planes top speed, but that's not a very good estimate if the plane never reaches that speed. Cruise speed (or maybe a little bit higher than that) would be a better estimate since the plane will probably be around that speed most of the time, and because at that speed it will have enough fuel to do its mission. By raising its effective cruise speed (the F-22's actual cruise speed is probably subsonic, supersonic flow is very draggy) with supercruise, the F-22 can achieve a high energy state than other aircraft. This allows it to launch its missiles further, reduce the range of enemy missiles, and provide the ability to engage and disengage at will (or as you said, no one can get away).

 

And of course, there is stealth as you mentioned too.

F22 must fit many rolls

They tried making it a F/A-22 in the mid 2000's to make it seem that way, and it does have quite a few neat ground attack capabilities, but it's fighter more than anything else. The F-35 is supposed to take over as the multirole workhorse for the USAF until 2050.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

So how about that new Russian SU-T50?

[Exorcet]

So how about that new Russian SU-T50?

Addressed in post 2. The Russians haven't announced anything big in a while.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I was looking more for your opinion on that aircraft.

[Exorcet]

It's probably on par with the F-22 aerodynamically, and will potentially be a big threat to F-15's and perhaps even the F-35 if the latter is found early enough. Though the engines will probably lag behind the F119's on the F-22, the PAK might end up being much lighter with its lesser focus on stealth. How much people should worry about it depends on how many Russia and India build and who else they sell it to.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

What kind of fancy smancy ground based anti-air defense systems do we have anyhow?

 

I learned alot of about the Russian kinds, but when I think about it, I don't think we invest as much into those as they do.

[Exorcet]

Yeah, the Soviet strategy was surround homeland with a sea of radars and SAM's and sit there in an unbreachable fort. The US decided to go break in to anyone's home if they looked at them funny, so we made long range aircraft and carriers.

 

As far as big, long range systems, the Patriot is really the core of what we have. It's equivalent to the S-300 more or less, but the F-22 and F-15 would be the US's primary for of defense.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I'm surprised nobody has cooked up like a UAV based air-space denial system.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Not sure if this is aviation as so much aerospace.

 

But, a privately built Xombie Rocket aced NASA's landing test.

[Exorcet]

It's certainly an achievement, but when you only need to do a single task, things get much easier.

 

On UAV's, the Air Force is looking to replace the U-2 with one, and I'm one of the people working on a concept. From the numbers we've got right now, it's going to be ridiculously huge, at least in terms of wingspan. It's still pretty early to say much about the final design though.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I thought the Global Hawk could do the U-2's job, they should probably just tinker with the G.H. and up it's flight ceiling.

[Exorcet]

The short comings with the Hark are its tiny payload and outright hatred of being modified to any configuration other than what came out of the factory. That's why the Air Force is seeking this new design despite keeping the GH in service.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Oh, didn't realize it was crappy.