Mac vs PC (vs Linux?)

[Mom]

What if you just like the form factors that come with a mac.

[Lenin]

This reminds me: I use a MacBook Pro. It runs hotter than the average campfire.

 

I really hate everything.

[Harakiri Tiger]

You can weld and create your own for cheaper and still use a Mac or Windows OS. Actually putting together a casing for your monitor and setup isn't that hard. The only difficulty is choosing what you want it to look like. And you're far more likely to enjoy something that's absolutely unique in that fashion than you are to enjoy a pre-packaged design. If I felt like it, I could build my computer into the wall or into my furniture. My couch, for example. This is without a case at all. It would probably take me around 3 hours to do, total.

 

The only reason to buy a premade computer for it's form factor is because you're either too lazy to make your own, don't have the tools, or are relatively computer illiterate. I can build a tower that completely outperforms your iMac, and has 2HDD and 2DVD drives for around $1,100. This is without the case, though. After that I can implement it into anything I feel like implementing it into. Walls might cost me around $50 to work it into, furniture probably around $20. The farther I want my peripherals to be from my motherboard, the more it'll cost, obviously. Long cables aren't cheap.

 

After that it's a matter of buying an OS of choice and buying a monitor that you'll take apart with a screwdriver and integrate into what you want. Assuming we buy that monitor you're using, (What is it? Around $1,200?) we should be able to put together a form of any kind you like for around $2,400.

 

You get far more bang for your buck; you get to have the exact form factor of your choice, inside an object of choice, and that object/case is fully customized to look exactly how you want it to look. At absolute most, you spend around $3,000. This would net you a very, very high end and unique computer with dual GPU's that is fully competitive with an Alienware computer, though.

 

Except it's built into your toilet/bed/couch/table/etc and has your OS of choice.

 

The only advantage an iMac has in form factor is that the MoBo on it is designed to house it's internal parts sideways so that it can conserve space. The trade-off is a shortened part lifespan, due to heat; a poor northbridge, due to needing a custom MoBo design; and the lack of fully upgradeable internals, due to space restrictions. Laptops do the same thing, except you can carry them around wherever you like. You can buy laptop motherboards, btw.

 

The only un-matchable advantage is your screen size and screen quality relative to price. A $1,000 screen is purely overkill in my eyes and is something I could never endorse. If you like, go ahead and use it.

 

It's one of those iPad things, I suppose. You guys like to spend money on silly objects.

[Tsuranga]

You just gave me the BEST IDea EVER. Integrate a new computer into a personal-sized REFRIDGERATOR!!!!!. You can keep your internals all cool, and have your drinks conveniently placed at your desk!

[SUMERIAN BLOOD GOD]

I'm gonna build a pc inside my car so I can compute while I commute.

[Tsuranga]

You better not be in california, or else at the rate our laws go it will be illegal to compute on your commute.

[Mom]

I guess, man, but personally a 1367xwhatever screen is really small and probably not crisp at all. I've seen some custom built windows machines of my friends, I've seen other apple computers, and I can say this display on the new iMacs is probably the best I've ever experienced.

I don't wanna hear dual screen or triple screen either, because having the bezels of the monitors separating your picture is very unpleasant.

 

 

I dunno where you're getting the "tradeoff is shorter lifespan" either, because I've had my old iMac G5 (always ran at 160 f) for 5 years now, with it running for a good 10 hours a day, never had any problems at all.

 

 

Show me a custom built rig that looks good too, because it's very hard to fabricate a case that's all one piece of aluminum with no creases in it without using some expensive machines.

 

I can build a tower that completely outperforms your iMac

You're like every other windows user I've seen try to argue price and performance when it comes to iMacs. Towers are not the same thing as an all-in-one. Don't compare apples to oranges =/

If I really wanted a tower, I'd make my own computer.

The lcd panels that are in the iMacs Dell ships are actually thicker than the whole iMac apple makes. You'd be hardpressed to fit that much computing prowess into such a small form-factor. That's something no home-built rig could do without a lot of money and engineering aptitude.

[Harakiri Tiger]

You have a tower. The entire point of that post was that you could build your "tower" as in your mainboard computer into just about anything you like via a laptop motherboard or desktop motherboard without the actual case. Computers don't need those cases they come with, they're just like that for easy consumer use. The screen is replaceable as well. Anyone can use the same screen, they'll just have to pay a bit more for it. I already acknowledged that the unmatchable advantage iMac's had was their screen, though. If only because it's cheaper.

 

I have no idea what my screen resolution or double triple screen setups has to do with my previous post. Your processor can run at 70C if it wants to, though you'll always suffer decreased threading performance. You probably just got used to it. The processor won't have a shortened lifespan from heat unless it spikes and dies. HDD's and GPU's are the kicker when it comes to heat. They lose performance over time for everyone, they lose it faster for being over 50C, and they die much sooner because of it. A single computers performance doesn't change that. You could easily have just kept it in a very ventilated area without straining the GPU or HDD.

 

Anyway, I'm sure that making an iMac look-a-like would cost me quite a great deal. They have a conveyor belt, I don't. You got me on the showing you a custom rig, though TM. I can't find any pics on Google of people building their computers into their wall/desk/toilet and I don't have the money to go buy another computer to do it.

 

It seems to me that the form factor you're talking about is just its physical size. In that case, an all-in-one is a flowery term for a stationary laptop with a pretty screen. It's not really apples to oranges. A 27inch TV with a high spec laptop built into the back of it isn't mobile, so it's just there to save some footspace. It weighs more than my entire tower. If your living conditions are so poor that you need that footspace saved you probably shouldn't be looking at $2,000 All-In-Ones.

 

The only thing making the new gen iMac viable is that screen it comes with. In two years, even that won't make it worth it.

[Mom]

The only laptop component the 27 inch iMacs use are the gpu though, and that's simply because desktop grade gpus are both really huge and really hot. Other than that, they run a high end desktop grade processor and desktop grade harddrives. I don't think I've seen any laptop with lynnfields in them, or correct me if I'm wrong. I think the high-end variant of the hp envy might have a desktop nehalem processor in it, but it sacrifices a disk drive for it.k

 

The form factor is also just simplicity. It only requires one cable to plug in and start computing. Not only does it look better in my room, but it makes moving it from place to place way easier. A good example is how you currently move your desktop rig from house to work to compute while working. One such advantage the iMac offered would be allowing a much more convenient moving experience while still providing high-end desktop computing experience. In fact, the only thing that isn't high-end on the current 27 inch lynnfield iMacs are the gpu, and even that is still a pretty decent card considering the iMac's formfactor.

 

Upgrading the internal parts of the iMac is very possible too, considering their main components are socketed, and those sockets are very universal with current and future parts. Doing so would void your warranty with apple though, but custom built rigs don't have a warranty with a computer oem to begin with, only the individual parts that resides within the computer. Oh on another note, apple's customer service is great. They'll replace your whole computer and do a data transfer for you if you see the slightest problem.

[Rachis]

There are a couple PC laptops that run Lynnfields. However, they are bulky and expensive. One example would be the fragbook which costs you nearly 5 grand just to go with all of the cheapest options and its not even that great of a setup. Apple has it down when it comes to the performance to size ratio at good prices. Their biggest problem is the failure to have any real graphics power so they would be forced to run external graphics cards to achieve similar graphical performance. However, if that becomes a non-issue or more Apple users were to run external graphics cards, if the Mac OS even supports it, then they would be ahead of the game in that respect because they would get performance comperable to a desktop for much less than it would take to achieve the same thing with PC laptop. The displays being the difference maker in this case. Also, smaller laptops = less cost so there's the other advantage. By no means is the longevity or performance ever going to match a well built desktop by virtue of cooling. I would still give props to Apple for what they are able to accomplish. Their limitations by no means put them below your typical PC.

[Rogan]

I grew up running linux and it just stuck.

[Harakiri Tiger]

I concede, then. As long as it's running all it's other parts at desktop quality, I can understand buying it. I can empathize with the shape when it comes to carrying it around.

[Magnus]

Important note on earlier misconceptions; using bootcamp to run Windows on a Mac no longer leaves the Mac impersonal, but makes the computer open to personalization. Which is what a 'Personal Computer' is.

[Mom]

This is coming from the guy whose "personal computer" encountered major problems within the last couple weeks.

Meanwhile my G5 iMac never encountered a problem in 5 years! This new lynnfield iMac has not had a problem yet either.

 

Apple's quality control is great, they love having everything being the utmost efficient for their hardware. A big reason Apple wouldn't allow Flash for their iPhone OS hardware? It drains battery, it causes all sorts of safety issues and it doesn't work 100% with multitouch.

 

 

Sure you can argue that a macintosh computer is severely limited in amount of custimization, but apple trades that for quality control.

[Mom]

Maybe to different eyes, but I see it as "now since they run windows they're not so crappy" ordeal.

 

The only "personalization" you get in computers is if you were to build your own custom rig and install windows on it-- but I already went over this on the post before.

 

There's nothing bad about the macintosh operating system, it just doesn't get the support it needs from 3rd party developers for native software-- games are one example. Thankfully that's all slowly changing-- such as valve software offering steam for mac.

[Video Vixen]

I just think of it like this:

 

Everything has its own problem. The end

 

This applies to people too!

[Magnus]

You would think that, not being able to run .exes on a Mac, TM, but the amount of things you can do to Windows and programs you can run by just being allowed to use a .exe is unlimited.

 

Where as .dmg's do derp.

[SUMERIAN BLOOD GOD]

Owen has bootcamp'd Win7 on it though so he can run .exes.

[Mom]

And I rather wouldn't have. Windows 7 feels like shit compared to OSX, but that's a different story.

 

The only major reason I'm running 7 is because of games. But like I said, that's slowly changing. Valve introduced steam to OSX, and that's pretty major. I look forward to more developments like that down the future.

[Magnus]

For only Steam games, which isn't a lot.

 

But at least you admit you have a PC.

[Alex]

tl;dr

 

In regards to laptops:

 

When I got this alienware laptop, I checked the apple site, considering it an option, well, turned out the same price gave me only 1 graphics card, not only that, that graphics card is worse than two of the three I'm getting with the AW, the CPU clocks were lower for the macbook too, bigger harddrive though, but it's not like I'm going to need harddrive space.

 

I wish I had screenshotted

 

But I guess I didn't need to, a quick check on Apple and AW seems to show me with similar price range, you'll get more from AW

 

and if you're not looking for the top of the line, Macbook vs Generic HP

 

Here's the pics:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6783/10712778.pnghttp://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9863/macbook.png

 

Notice the better specs on the cheaper HP? with 100 dollars more, it upgrades to the same GT330M as the thousand dollar macbook pro, and there's a free upgrade to 4GB ram

 

I'd put my gfx card in the oven before I run windows on a macbook, too much overheating problems

 

Forgot to mention, beauty is really a preference thing, I personally find the dull curve of the Mac to be... well.. dull, so that really shouldn't be an argument at all

Edited April 14, 2010 by Alex

[Video Vixen]

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Man Alex your post is gonna make Owen so mad.

[Mom]

Apple's big selling point is battery life-- something I hear every friend I know complain about lack thereof, when they talk about their windows notebooks.

 

Apple's perfectly willing to trade a cut in performance here and there to achieve longer lasting battery life. Afterall, these are mobile devices, and the top selling point to a mobile device should be portability-- both achieved through great formfactors and long battery life. I was doing some research on a nice sub 800 dollar 15 incher for a friend, and I was paying close attention to the size and battery life of a lot of the notebooks on the current market. Sadly, only devices I've found that boast the same amount of thin-ness and battery life numbers of the macbookpros were netbooks

 

 

 

 

Gaming laptop? Oxymoron if you ask me. I'd love to know the battery life of a laptop when running in SLI'd mode! Probably so poor you'd otherwise have it plugged in to an outlet-- at which point you might as well have gotten a dedicated gaming machine with a cheap netbook to complement your mobile needs.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Nah I don't buy that. Almost everyone I knew in college used their laptops to play games all the time. Between classes, during meals, or during breaks on all-nighters...or even just to play whenever they wanted a change in scenery. Battery life was never an issue because there were outlets everywhere and everyone always carried their cord.

 

I, for one, also did the same thing in college. I left myself out because I don't play computer games much, but the point still remains: carrying the cord isn't an issue, and finding outlets isn't either.

 

I dunno maybe colleges have changed since I was last in one. Maybe they don't have outlets anymore.

 

Not that I give a fuck about macs or pcs, but I saw things happen different from what you're saying.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Colon Mokto