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Hip-hop


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#41 ⅄∩ᴎ⅁ ∀⅂⅁ƎᴚI∀ᴎ HO⊥ DO⅁

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:46 PM

Kanye is the manifestation of alot of things I truly dislike in human beings.

#42 Mom

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:16 PM

Nigga you frontin

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:59 PM

Indeed, I am being upfront.

#44 Nomrah

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:45 PM

Here's what comes to my mind when I think of hip-hop.



Also forget that hip-hop live band shit, for the most part that's just the result of too much success and corporate backing. An assortment of studio musicians payed big bucks to put some live music together to revolve around some guy rapping. I highly doubt Jay-z or Kanye played any big part in putting that music together, the musicians simply used their expert knowledge to compose something to play while the guy raps around on stage. Also the super bowl performance (black eyed peas) for this last years super bowl was one of the worst performances I've ever seen, what a complete mess that was.
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#45 Mom

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:15 PM

Good thing Jay-Z isn't the Black Eyed Peas huh.

#46 Nomrah

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:25 PM

Sure, although maybe jay-z's next for Super Bowl 2012, live band and all!

EDIT: I went ahead and checked out your jay-z, first video I click on he's got Oasis's "Wonderwall" playing, then I skip forward and I hear AC/DC's "Back In Black". Is this a good example of the live hip-hop performances you guys are speaking of? Sounds like shit, did he really just open his own show with someone else's song?


Edited by Nomrah, 03 December 2011 - 08:39 PM.

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#47 Mom

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:43 PM

Is it the covering someone else's song or the opening with a cover that you don't like.

Btw any Oasis cover is probably better than the original.

#48 Nomrah

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:03 PM

What I really don't like is the complete lack of creativity, originality and musical ability. It all ties back to what we discussed earlier about hip-hop artists constantly ripping off others music.

Watch the video and wonder why the hell he's even holding a guitar, also I must add he is one of the worst singers I have ever heard in my life. Care to inform me why I should consider this joker talented, or worthy of this level of fame?

Edited by Nomrah, 03 December 2011 - 09:03 PM.

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#49 YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:09 PM

He's covering Oasis as a shot at Liam Gallagher. Jay-Z was going to be performing at the Glastonbury Festival that year, and Liam stated that he felt hiphop had no place at the festival, so Jay-Z opened his set with a terrible cover of Oasis' most famous song.

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View PostBakuhatsu Pengin, on 15 December 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

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#50 Ethos

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 03:54 AM

Quote

Watch the video and wonder why the hell he's even holding a guitar, also I must add he is one of the worst singers I have ever heard in my life. Care to inform me why I should consider this joker talented, or worthy of this level of fame?

Good thing Jay-Z isn't a singer then.



I like hip hop.

I used to be one of those people that heard rap playing on the radio and would think "god, what a joke". That was up until I actually started listening to some of the better stuff out there. The problem with what some of you guys are doing is by listening to what's playing on mtv or the radio (i.e. mainstream) and just assuming that's what the whole thing is about. If that's what we're all gonna go by, then I'd be right in assuming that linkin park is the truest representation of metal. Let's see, there's guy is screaming over guitars, drums and bass so it's metal. I'd also be right by saying that linkin park is the same as um fear factory, meshuggah, opeth or machine head.

Quote

Also forget that hip-hop live band shit, for the most part that's just the result of too much success and corporate backing. An assortment of studio musicians payed big bucks to put some live music together to revolve around some guy rapping. I highly doubt Jay-z or Kanye played any big part in putting that music together, the musicians simply used their expert knowledge to compose something to play while the guy raps around on stage. Also the super bowl performance (black eyed peas) for this last years super bowl was one of the worst performances I've ever seen, what a complete mess that was.

Some rappers are also music producers. That means that they produce their own music, so they oversee the whole creation of the album. So all the studio musicians you think are payed big bucks to put live music together to revolve around some guy rapping are just paid musicians that are being told what notes to play to some guy rapping. It's not that they're saving the guy by providing music. They're just following along with what they were hired to play. Does that mean that the studio musicians don't have any input? probably not. Doesn't mean that all hip hop artists are just some guy rapping lyrics without the slightest idea of what it means to create music.

You can doubt all you want that jay-z or kanye west had any part in creating their music but if they produced their albums, it means that they probably were the biggest part in creating their music.

Quote

What I really don't like is the complete lack of creativity, originality and musical ability. It all ties back to what we discussed earlier about hip-hop artists constantly ripping off others music.

The do the same in every genre. There's metal bands out there that are ripping off metallica or slayer. There's rock groups out there that copy red hot chili peppers. There's a lot of r&b artists that rip off michael jackson. There's pop acts that rip off madonna. Arguing that hip hop artists are not talented because they're constantly ripping off other's music is not a good argument, when it happens in every other genre. The problem is that originality in music (or with everything else for that matter) doesn't really exist. It's all been done before. It's just being delivered in different ways.



Aaanyway, I feel that it's kinda dumb to just hate on something without not really knowing much about it. If you wanna say it isn't your thing, fine. Don't just assume that what you're hearing on tv or radio is all there is to it and hate the genre as a whole for it.


For the record, I like hip hop. I also like metal, rock, pop, jazz, classical, scores, soundtracks and every other genre that's in my ipod.

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#51 ⅄∩ᴎ⅁ ∀⅂⅁ƎᴚI∀ᴎ HO⊥ DO⅁

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:33 AM

So for Ethos.

Hip-Hop = Good
Rap = Bad Hip-Hop

#52 Mom

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:38 AM

You've been having some gross overgeneralizations in this thread.

#53 Genocide

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:58 AM

Yeah, if the producer is hiring people, then its like Ethos said, they had the say in what went into the album or songs those guys were asked to help make.

So much of the shit on TV, is just marketing. MTV is a marketing machine, they pump out ads in the programming and ads that are just ads. So glamorized that it just appeals to anyone watching (right? If you're retarded, perhaps). A lot of it is oriented at youth and young adults, kids want shit cuz they're immature and acting like babies. "Mom, give me this or you're a bad mom, and I'll be pissed off and do something CRAZY!" So, yeah, some people with an interest in the artist know this, like the producers (though more commonly the radio & record label execs), and some of it is just them getting pimped like a street-walking whore.

Music for the masses! Sometimes not the best thing to do, sell-outs I guess can be yelled at a bit, but pressures are put on them too you know.

Fuck all that thought though, why force someone to make something that adheres to a marketing campaign?
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#54 ⅄∩ᴎ⅁ ∀⅂⅁ƎᴚI∀ᴎ HO⊥ DO⅁

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:32 AM

I'm looking for an answer as to what the difference between the two is, Owen.

#55 Mom

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:36 AM

It's already been answered, they can overlap. Hip-hop can encompass rap, as hip-hop is a broad category of music.

Also note that rapping is a verb for an actual way you spit your words out while hip-hop is just a name of a category of music. I have no problem either if people categorize 'rap' as hip-hop.

Edited by TMRaven, 04 December 2011 - 11:44 AM.


#56 Nomrah

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:45 AM

I'm still convinced hip-hop and rap only translates well onto albums. The ones with live performances always come across as messy, the live bands I've been seeing hardly contribute anything to the constant indecipherable barrage of vocals by one or two boisterous guys tromping around on stage. I've got a question, has any live hip-hop/rap performance ever evoked any level of emotion from any of you? It seems the performances manifest into the lowest level of mental activity, just look at the guys rapping, their mouths are hanging open, blank looks on their faces, a complete failure to articulate words, also the the way they move around it looks as if they are bored or tired, nothing seems to be together, it's almost as if they really do not care. They do not care to deliver anything powerful or meaningful, they do not grasp the concept of emotional execution. Is that simply not the point of the music, if so what is? I can totally see why all the young kids pants are falling down if this is all that they listen to.
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#57 Ethos

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:46 AM

View PostEnganacious, on 04 December 2011 - 10:33 AM, said:

So for Ethos.

Hip-Hop = Good
Rap = Bad Hip-Hop

No, more like:

Good hip-hop=Good
Bad hip-hop=Bad

or if you wanna break it down further:

most mainstream hip hop=bad
most "underground" hip hop=good

tho that's a big generalization.

To me, hip hop is the genre of music (if you wanna break it down to just music, cause originally, hip hop was the whole thing, the music, the graffiti, the breakdancing), and rap is the verb of what the guys are doing, i.e. they're rapping on the track haha.


EDIT: gotta answer Nomrah here:


Quote

I'm still convinced hip-hop and rap only translates well onto albums. The ones with live performances always come across as messy, the live bands I've been seeing hardly contribute anything to the constant indecipherable barrage of vocals by one or two boisterous guys tromping around on stage. I've got a question, has any live hip-hop/rap performance ever evoked any level of emotion from any of you? It seems the performances manifest into the lowest level of mental activity, just look at the guys rapping, their mouths are hanging open, blank looks on their faces, a complete failure to articulate words, also the the way they move around it looks as if they are bored or tired, nothing seems to be together, it's almost as if they really do not care. They do not care to deliver anything powerful or meaningful, they do not grasp the concept of emotional execution. Is that simply not the point of the music, if so what is? I can totally see why all the young kids pants are falling down if this is all that they listen to.


I've seen metal shows and rock shows where the live performances are messy too, so this is just not only to hip hop performances. I've also been seen some bands that have been unable to invoke any level of emotion out of me. I've seen some pretty shitty metal performances, usually waiting for the band I went to see to come on. Live performance and studio performance are two different things. If they suck at having a live presence, they aren't gonna give you a good show, and this goes for any music artist; not just hip hop. I'm sad to say that I haven't been to a hip hop show (partly cause I'm over going to shows as I hate going by myself and other fans tend to piss me off, specially when they're younger), but I'd imagine that not all hip hop artists give the same quality of live performance. I'd also imagine that if I went to a hip hop show to see a hip hop artist I like, I would be excited to hear the songs I like, I'd try to rap along, happy I'm hearing it live, and I'd feel something if I can relate to what they're saying in the song. You know, the same that I would do and feel if I was in another show instead.

In short though, all that you said can be said about every genre.

Edited by Ethos, 04 December 2011 - 12:01 PM.

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#58 YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:06 PM

I answered your question a long time ago, Raor. Ethos just answered it again.

View PostNomrah, on 04 December 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

I'm still convinced hip-hop and rap only translates well onto albums. The ones with live performances always come across as messy, the live bands I've been seeing hardly contribute anything to the constant indecipherable barrage of vocals by one or two boisterous guys tromping around on stage. I've got a question, has any live hip-hop/rap performance ever evoked any level of emotion from any of you?

I've got a more important question: how many live hiphop acts have you seen? I mean actually there, not youtube or TV.

I average about 20 concerts a year (since about 2004). Some hiphop, some other stuff, sometimes dance (bellydancing, ballet, folk dancing, cirque du soleil, that sort of thing). The top 3 concerts I've been to were Nine Inch Nails at the Colisseum for the Lights in the Sky Tour, Jay-Z for the Heart of the City Tour, and of Montreal for the Hissing Fauna Tour. Just about every show I've been to has evoked some level of emotion, whether it was happiness or being super amped up, or wanting to kill everyone in the band for wasting my time and stealing my money.

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View PostBakuhatsu Pengin, on 15 December 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

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#59 Ethos

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:10 PM

Man, I never got to see NIN. :wiggle:

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#60 YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:16 PM

I've seen em twice! I've seen like everyone lol

Well except for most pop. I tend to avoid the shows even if I don't mind the music because I don't like the crowds at them. Crazy moms can be tough to put up with!

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View PostBakuhatsu Pengin, on 15 December 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

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