Pin Prick 2.0

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Maybe Owen can help with that? I always used 50 point increments but Owen would prolly test it for you to get specific numbers. He does a test with r3 shots iirc.

 

And yeah it might even be best to try and squeeze a second hg in there. I actually like 69h+wraith more than dual wraith but as usual with those handguns it's all personal preference.

 

For me, I'm not as good at handling rapid-fire weapons on the right arm as I am with single fire weapons.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I'm prolly gonna do the defense tunes testing myself, to try and screw w/ weight so I can get 2 hanger HG's.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Word is bond son. If you end up doing an alternate design, maybe try focusing on making the fen do the heavy lifting. I think it'd be a fun concept for you to work around. Prolly means focusing on maximizing the handling and speed, and probably leaving off backmounts altogether (aside from radar).

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I optimize the tunes and got 2 69H hangers now.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Seems pretty good to me.

 

Owen's right in that early pressure comment. I agree wholeheartedly. That being said, I think everything you could do to sort it out has already been done. All you can hope for is to spam off the rm3 as fast as possible and toss the entire missile payload than fight with the handhelds...and if necessary toss the fen too and fight with the 3 remaining guns. Anything that can pressure hard enough, hopefully, won't be so fast that it can completely negate the initial missile+fen assault. After it's all empty you should hopefully have the AP lead.

 

Unless they're running the same bot with griffon instead of fen. Than you're screwed. hahaha

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Well if it's early pressure play, I'd plan to get 1-2 Fenrir hits if possible and drop the Fenrir. Mostly because the Fenrir is double-problem from anything fast enough and capable of pressure play, being that the lockboxes are small and it slows P.P. down a lot.

 

I suppose spamming off the missiles would work too, but then you'd have to manage the RS/Fenrir lockbox which is painfully small.

 

Drop the Fenrir and you have a 480kph capable bot w/ RS/69H, a right hanger backup and Nymphe+RM3; which is dangerous in it's own right; just not super great w/o OB. But any sort of slower bot is gonna be in big trouble from Fenrir.

 

The increased heat tunes on Gull will also help it alittle (not much at all honestly) in any sort of pressure situation, as it won't heat up as fast.

 

Griffon would be a sensible option if I was making a comp bot, but I really like how this thing works. Maybe you should make a similar RS/Griffon bot and we'll have a fantasy duel, where ya know, where women end up pregnant and dead.

[Mom]

Tried it out. Liked it considerably better with Wraith left-- more synergy with RS. Wraith right hangar seems alirght too, but probably 69h right hangar would do it better. Eye3 head instead of S2/RA seemed to handle better, but I only played 1 match with Eye3 head.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I'm gonna play around with it when I'm doing noobs testing and shit tomorrow and decide for myself.

 

-Addendum-

 

I'm seeing why TM likes Wraith, with as fast as thing this is once Fenrir drops, and considering it's a relatively frail bot, it's not wise to dance "in the pocket" as it where and exchange fire, which is where the 69H would be best; the RS/Wraith combo is dangerous, because of PP's ability to stand back and move in when it's moving at ~480kph will all that juice. I think either handgun could work under the right hand, but if the match is at that point, it's gonna be pure ammo play.

 

So, I think I'm gonna go Right Hanger: 69H and Left Hanger: Wraith. I get the RS/Wraith combo after Fenrir, but still have 69H backing up the RS for some more solid damage. But, before I do that, I'm playing around, because Wraith seems to be slightly more accurate to me, I'm also going to run damage tests too, to see what the advantage/disadvantage is in that department.

 

TM also thinks this should be an Eye3 bot, and I can see why, although gaining/losing 6-7 kph isn't that big of a deal to me. If I run Wraith/Wraith in the hangers, I can tune Gull 1 power, 2 accel, 7 heat and get 393 kph; Eye3 puts it at 398 w/o the weight tunes I use for the S2/69RA setup (I can leave 3 weight cap tunes on the Dingo2 and get 400kph). So we'll see.

 

-2nd Addendum-

 

After doing damage tests between 69H and Wraith, the 69H has a clear advantage.

 

Vs. the default bot's 8413 AP, here's what the leftover AP looks like.

 

69H - 2138

Wraith - 3933

 

Single burst damage test results where as follows.

 

69H - 8413->7890 (523), 7330->6806 (524), 6246->5723 (523)

Wraith - 7890->7330 (560), 6806->6246 (560), 5723->5163 (560)

 

-3rd Addendum-

 

Looking at 1 and 2 you'd think I'd be having my foot in my mouth, lol.

 

Anywho, 69H doesn't seem quite as accurate, but not by any significant margin, I did like 10 vs. AI matches (fast ones, but none of them try to dodge) and the Wraith consistantly had a slightly higher accuracy percentage.

 

But what I did notice, is Wraith is much, much better suited for any sort of rush/pressure work. The Wraith does a tiny bit more damage, it also does it a great deal faster (which is it's main bonus). The 69H does have a clear cut advantage in that it's capable of doing a great deal more damage.

 

When you look at the test I did vs. a stationary bot... (sounds silly but look)

 

69H: 8413->2138, that's 6275AP in damage

Wraith: 8413-3933, that's 4480AP in damage

 

That means the 69H is capable of ~45% more damage, so for now; I think I'm gonna try and have the best of both. I'm going with a left hand Wraith hanger, so I have pressure power, as it also hurts faster/hotter AC's more, it also stuns lighter less stable bots more; but I'm gonna put the 69H in the right hand hanger to back up damage capabilities.

 

I'm going to keep playing with it as I go, but I got other things to do for the time being, so I'll leave it as such; atleast until I get some feedback.

[Harakiri Tiger]

Yah, the 69H is the most stable damage you can get from a very light HG (barring HP). It's got nearly the same accuracy as Wraith, but with more ammo+damage. I actually consider 69H to be the best handgun outside of HP, but I don't like how it looks so I typically just use Wraith instead. Especially since Wraith isn't really weaker than 69H, instead just designed/balanced to put out fast. 69H takes a bit longer to dump that damage, so it's better for the matches that you know will drop to AP lead via long games and potentially ammo out. A lot of LR games are like that, too. Wraith is more useful for the rushdown finale type play since it has pretty nice DPS, but I actually don't feel that 69H is much worse at the rushdown finale either.

 

I sort of agree with the mix you did here. I like the mix itself of using 69H+Wraith, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't work better with Wraith under the RS and 69H under Fenrir. 69H has longevity, so if you put it under the Fenrir you're more likely to use all of its ammo and potential damage ability (validating it more over using a 2nd Wraith), whereas you're not as likely to do so with it under RS. Really, though, 69H vs Wraith is more about the way you play than the guns themselves.

 

Idk about this Wraith having more accuracy than 69H. LCC says 69H is more accurate than Wraith. I think that's more playstyle factoring in than anything else, though. There's probably some method to test the gun accuracy though. You could always try split screen with 2 controllers. Make one bot using super high accuracy arms (Lemur/Loris) so you negate arm problems as much as possible and equip the gun using the FCS/dual wield of choice. Then just make a generic lightweight for player 2 and just walk side to side with it a bunch while tapping shoot button on controller 1. You could be a bit more practical to and just test it with your bot instead of changing arms so you can see what the guns natural accuracy is with your FCS/arms/setup. You might even be getting the accuracy simply because you have better shot timing at specific ranges or because you keep your lock in shorter bursts of time.

 

Anyway, my advice is try Wraith+69H too. Depending on your playstyle tendencies it could work out better for you. If not, I'd just stay with 69H+Wraith.

[Mom]

Here's 7 matches between me using Pin Prick (both original, dual 69h, and dual wraith) against LCC using Gish.

 

 

 

 

I found Wraith is significantly better than 69H when paired with RS, for punishing on both rushdowns and cqc deterrent. Right arm hangar would probably benefit as 69h, as by the time you're using it you're using it by itself.

 

I wouldn't say 69H is best handgun in the game after HP. HP > 69H = Wraith.

Edited June 24, 2011 by TMRaven

[Harakiri Tiger]

Yah, I noticed that the Wraith's stun was definitely helping out there in some spots.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I can see getting the 2nd hanger gun was definitely a smart thing to do.

 

I am going here pretty soon dick around with swapping out S2/69RA for Eye3 and see what happens in defense testing.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

I think going to eye3 makes all kinds of sense. Definitely see what you can get out of that switch.

[Mom]

So since I liked the feel of Pin Prick, I went ahead and modified my Ultraviolent revamp where I was trying to use 98L/Fenrir and orbits.

 

Now it's:

 

eye3 | cronus | xs | dingo2 | gull | f73h | lotus | ananda | - | RM3 | Nymphe | - | 98L | fenrir | 69h | wraith

 

Amino, es, L+, codon, golgi, histon, phage

 

 

I liked the way RS/Wraith rushed down and heated opponents up. 98L/Wraith should do a better job because 98L is significantly higher heat and fires faster, not to mention it blinds.

 

Yay for nymphe/fenrir combo.

Edited June 25, 2011 by TMRaven

[Shirtless Crackhead]

If I do, I'm going to keep some weight tunes to keep it at 400kph, or try messing around with the excess space to see what can be done with it.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I am not feeling Eye3 on Pin Prick.

 

I lose a bit of cooling; granted I run histon rather wastedly instead of marishi to get a slighly faster reload (5 vs 6 second reload). But it has plenty of cooling to run effectively without.

 

I also lose 90 AP, and cannot make up the defenses with tunes.

 

I gain 8kph, if I go for 399kph vs. 400 w/ Eye3 I still can't make up the defenses.

 

That glitch on the Shell Defense with the S2 frame is this bot's saving grace for S2, I suppose.

 

So, I'll let you do you Owen, but I'll stick with the S2.

[Mom]

What glitch is that? Sounds interesting. Through some testing with Tsuranga I found that the CAMS of 99UL made a pretty noticeable difference vs his RM3/Vert whoring ways, and that using Histon on my iteration wasn't the best of choices, as it sort of crippled my mobility while on the offensive. I'll most likely be replacing it with Marishi, or find a way to get 99UL on it.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

With S2/99UL/FL/D2 I can tune 1 tier up vs. 2 or 3, and get better than 2 defense putting me 40 AP below full shell defense tunes @ +3 tiers, and get +2 on energy defense, plenty of cooling, and the weight tunes needed to fit everything. Edited June 26, 2011 by Enganacious

[Mom]

See, it's all the added words in that make your examples confusing/ambiguous. Just a simple list of numbers of shell defense with a certain frame, with ap loss after x amount of shots to the right of it; example:

 

 

60 shots of r2:

 

s2/ul/fl/d2:

 

1532: 4803 ap loss

1536: 4803 ap loss

1542: 4750 ap loss

1546: 4750 ap loss

 

 

and so on

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I would like to get a screen cap pic of this bot if possible Owen.

[Mom]

Make the request on my schematic request thread so I can get a bump on that topic.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Done, now do it brah.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Shit is hard as fuck to aim, but it pays dividends.

[Harakiri Tiger]

Yeah, that left arm Fenrir certainly doesn't help the lockbox. Hahahahahaha.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

But it's so good man.

 

It really only needs like 2-3 hits for the most part.

 

If only they had a lighter 5-shot version or something, shit would be so OP.