Call of Duty: Black Ops

[Wong]

I have a love affair with the MPL.

I can't believe I missed this. I prefer the Spectre, but only for the iron sights. The iron sights on the MPL is just too obstrictive. Do you like the irons or do you use an RDS/Reflex.

 

I'm having some pretty terrific games with it, but nothing to convince me that it really stands up as a great choice for smg's.

Because it is not. The 74u beats pretty much beats all of the SMGs. It also has a diverse attachment selection. Lastly, it has AR aim assist (37.5m) to combat against ARs.

 

I'm certainly not biased on this one either. I really liked the mp5 in cod4. This one just isn't doing it for me. I almost feel bad about it too because the mp5 looks better to me than the other smg's.

I am sure you are not biased. I think it has something to do with the maps. In CoD4, I could generally move my way around within the map to maintain my advantage range (18 m - 25 m). In BOPS, I can do the same thing if I were to stay in one section of a map. But if I were to go from one section of the map to another, I have to go to a zone where aim assist wouldn't help me. At least that is how I see. I am sure there is more to it. And without the aim assist, the recoil goes up substantially, aka, PC gaming.

 

Oh, I meant to reply to this as well:

I tend to take everything I can get out of my weapons which is why shit like the m4 always has been the best weapon for me.

That, and the M4 was indeed a great weapon. I actually played the M4 for its accuracy at long range. This is why I run the M4 almost 100% of the time with silencers because all I cared about was its min damage anyways. People also overlooked silenced ARs in favor of silenced SMG most of the time.

[Rachis]

As good as the m4 is, it was always outclassed. I see it more as a professional's choice weapon rather than a legitimate go to option.

[Mom]

No reason to run the M4 when you could just run M16. That's exactly what I did. I only used M4 when the game was too laggy for the M16's burst fire, and required more spray action to kill people.

[Wong]

That's kinda like saying, "No reason to run the shotgun when you could just run SMG." I use what is fun for me. Always have. Always will.

 

I agree that M4 loses to the SMGs and 47 up close, which is why I run with the silencer and play long. It was awesome at long range. Putting a silencer on an M16 would defeats its purpose anyways. Also, when I played CoD4, I played it on both PC and PS3, so I used weapons that were good on both. The M16 was pretty bad on the PC due to recoil (lol, I know) and the M4 was god-like.

 

I am not sure you guys know how much aim assist helps either. On the PC, there is just regular recoil. On console, there are two forces. Regular recoil and aim assist.

 

When you shoot, your gun will jump due to recoil, however, another force (aim assist) will then pull your gun close to your opponent. This is why the M16 was so good on the console. After the first bullet goes off, it should recoil enough for the second bullet to miss at long range. However, due to aim assist, it pulls in at the same time. Because of that, it guaranteed a OSK way too many times on console. On the PC, not so much, which is why it was considered the gamble weapon. You have to rely on luck to get the OSK (or just at close enough range). And since there is a .2 second delay after the burst, any good weapon has enough time to pick you off.

 

Turn off aim assist or play on the PC to see what I am talking about.

 

Edit:

And this is why shooting at a wall to see the recoil pattern is a little less relevant on console: because you are not accounting for aim assist. If you played on the PC, it makes perfect sense.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Wong

[Mom]

Don't really wanna turn aim assist off, just wanna kill shit as much as possible.

 

Ironically enough I did have aim assist off for a couple matches on black ops after testing famas hip fire on training mode against bots with aim assist on and off. I didn't realize I had aim assist off until close to the end of the second match when I was wondering why my hip fire wasn't so good. It turns out I noticed the aim assist more on famas's hip fire moreso than it ads fire.

[Rachis]

We don't need an aim assist lesson. It's pretty much a mandatory part of console gaming. I highly doubt it was strong enough to seriously affect weapon behavior, but seeing as how I haven't really looked into it I won't comment further. All I can say is that a mouse is a lot more precise than a controller so regardless of weapon behavior you are generally going to have greater success on the PC with a wider variety of options.

 

Also I don't get why you would run long range on a silenced m4. That's 5 rounds you have to hit constantly. It's much better when you just mix it up with guys like you normally would. Just have to play a tad safer since the silenced m4 doesn't overpower anything.

[Wong]

Yeah, hip fires has aim assist as well. It is actually kinda funny. AR has better hip fire aim assist range than SMGs (excluding the 74u and Kiparis)

 

Now that I think about it, using the MP5K in BOPS plays a lot like MP5 on CoD4 PC. And many people on the competitive side didn't like the MP5 for its high recoil. That, and ProMod takes away idle sway on the 74u. 74u was the go-to SMG. If you watch any frag movies, 9/10, it will consist of the 74u, 47, M40, and R700.

 

 

We don't need an aim assist lesson. It's pretty much a mandatory part of console gaming.

I agree.

 

I highly doubt it was strong enough to seriously affect weapon behavior, but seeing as how I haven't really looked into it I won't comment further.

All I have to say it was a lot harder to pull OSK. Just sayin'. But I haven't played BOPS on the PC yet either. :[

 

My friends did say that the G11 is a great weapon on the PC, due to low recoil. But yeah, I will not comment any further, seeing that I do not have that game on the PC.

 

Also I don't get why you would run long range on a silenced m4. That's 5 rounds you have to hit constantly.

Four with SP. Which is reasonable. Just one extra bullet than the AK at long range and chances are, the AK is going to miss more.

 

It's much better when you just mix it up with guys like you normally would. Just have to play a tad safer since the silenced m4 doesn't overpower anything.

I am not playing safer. I am playing within my range. I mean, if I were to snipe, I would not go CQ either. You know, unless its MW2.

 

And the silenced M4 was a great weapon, again, on the PC. Many top team used it. It is not used after ProMod was released because ProMod took away the radar and idle sway.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Wong

[Lenin]

I have a love affair with the MPL.

 

Me too bro.

 

Though torn between the MPL and Spectre. I think I like the Spectre more over all... but I can put Dual Mags on the MPL, so I don't feel the need to run Scavenger with it, and can lag troll with Lightweight or run Hardline and have Spy Plane + Counter Spy Plane up at all times for exactly half of no effort.

 

Spectre is still the SMG I'm best with, though. There are some times with the MPL that I just draw on a stationary target and just flatout miss... which never happens with any other gun. Don't know what that shit's about. Maybe it's because my emblem looks awesome on the MPL and I just can't pay attention.

 

But that's okay... This is XBL. Nobody is paying attention.

[Rachis]

That's a badass vid. I'm usually not impressed with PC gameplay, but when it's pros vs pros and they are operating that quickly...shit is sick.

 

And Lenin get on...I got two vids to show you.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Wrenchis

[Wong]

Keep in mind that S&D is the only gametype that people on the competitive cares about. This is why he shows parts where he accidentally kills his teammates (for the lulz) and where he kill three people, because he just took out over half the team. He is also very good at editing.

[Butts]

Me too bro.

 

Though torn between the MPL and Spectre. I think I like the Spectre more over all... but I can put Dual Mags on the MPL, ...

 

Dual Mags frees up the need for Scav and Sleight Of Hand, so I can be a dick and run Steady Aim or whatever other second perks there are.

 

No, really, I forget anything other than those two. I normally just run SoH on everything, Steady Aim if it's a sniper.

 

Also, the MPL is perfect for emblems. Mine looks fine on the back of it. I don't even remember the Spectre's location. I used it my first prestige and liked it, but never thought to buy it again. I'm not much of an SMG player.

 

EDIT: I'm really disappointed there's no Desert Eagle/equivalent in this game. I loved the gun in Cod4, I always ran it akimbo in MW2, and now I'm relegating to a CZ75 w/ Ext. Mags. It's a sad fate, really.

Edited January 2, 2011 by NIJL

[Wong]

The Python is the DEagle with one less bullet. Python w/ Speed Reloader is pretty good bro. It is the only pistol I run besides CZ Dual Wield with SA.

[Butts]

But it's a revolver, and it just doesn't have the same feel as the Desert Eagle.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

i liked the USP better

i hated playing promod because i couldnt use a USP

[Rachis]

So yeah that vid inspired me a lot and it was a convenient excuse to play more search and destroy since I'm not fond of the spawn system. 15/1 at Nuketown is pretty uncalled for. Had a triple kill semtex and a double kill in there followed immediately with a knife. Nuketown somehow is so much more fun when you don't have to worry about spawns.

[Mom]

Also I don't get why you would run long range on a silenced m4. That's 5 rounds you have to hit constantly. It's much better when you just mix it up with guys like you normally would. Just have to play a tad safer since the silenced m4 doesn't overpower anything.

 

I only ran a silencer on the M4 as well--- and my reasoning was same as Wong's. I'd need 4 shots to kill at range instead of 3, but the M4's recoil was so manageable that the extra shot didn't matter too much at range, while not showing your muzzle flash or blip while shooting was a good enough of a benefit to warrant its use. But as I said before, I only ran that if the game lagged too much for M16.

 

 

 

I disagree about the shotgun vs smg, Wong. I see the shotgun vs smg as a considerable changeup to something like M16 vs M4.

[Wong]

Btw, CoD4 is still played competitively, but mainly in Europe.

 

i liked the USP better

i hated playing promod because i couldnt use a USP

I know that the GOLD DEagle was the default pistol, but the other pistols were not restricted. lol All you had to do was click the arrow on the right of the Primary weapon box. The only weapons that there not selectable were due to legitimate reason and they were banned with pros in mind. They were ...

LMGs

- At long range, they absolutely destroy ARs, making protecting choke point way too easy. At least snipers have to kill one player at a time so the people with ARs can catch up and kill the sniper.

- LMGs have large bullets, which goes through walls like butter. Since the only format they play is S&D, teams will use to train to plant bombs at specific angles (locations) at the bomb site, then go to obscure area maps far away from the bomb site. When they hear a defuse, they will shoot through walls and kill the defuser, making it very frustrating for the other team (especially since radar is taken out in tournaments).

Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles

- While the bolt actions swayed less, this does not deter pros from using semi-autos because they recover faster, which makes them easier to pick off groups (much like the reason they banned LMGs). Even though the SVD and M21 does not have the stomach multiplier, the pros only aimed for the chest and head anyway. If someone relied on the stomach multiplier, they were probably garbage at sniping (to be part of a pro team), to give up the recovery advantage. But the 50 Cal was the best because it recovered quick and has the stomach multiplier, just in case.

Stuns / Flash

- Restricted enemy movement giving you complete dominance over the other player. It also does not not serve a tactical purpose for the team. The smoke grenade on the other hand, did.

Perks

- Even though perks were not selectable, Bandoleer, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact was already programmed in.

 

Eh, the only time I played ProMod was for S&D. I was never a great player but it was fun and intense. Otherwise, it took away CoD4 too much. It removed idle sway, killstreaks, perks, etc. But it is the best mod though. Some other people liked the DAMN mod and PAM mod, but they were pretty trash for me.

 

So yeah that vid inspired me a lot and it was a convenient excuse to play more search and destroy since I'm not fond of the spawn system. 15/1 at Nuketown is pretty uncalled for. Had a triple kill semtex and a double kill in there followed immediately with a knife. Nuketown somehow is so much more fun when you don't have to worry about spawns.

 

I disagree about the shotgun vs smg, Wong. I see the shotgun vs smg as a considerable changeup to something like M16 vs M4.

My point was that I use what is fun for me, not what the top tier choice is. Always had. Always will. I will use the G36C if I want to.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Wong

[Mom]

My point was that I use what is fun for me, not what the top tier choice is. Always had. Always will. I will use the G36C if I want to.

 

=O G36c has a peephole for its ironsights tho.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

the way we played promod, it was strictly restricted on what you couldnt use and what you could use

 

iirc...

 

 

AR

AK47

M16

MP44

 

SMG

MP5

74u

 

LMG

N/A

 

SR

R700

M40

 

SHOTGUN

N/A

 

SIDEARM

DEAGLE

G.DEAGLE

 

 

settings

-1/2 health

-no perks

-smoke only

and then something with the bomb plants (shorter plant, longer defuse i think)

 

 

 

did i miss anything/anything wrong?

[Wong]

I think you played Promod 3 with PAM3. PAM3 pretty much removes anything that is left from Promod that the "pros" didn't use. So you are basically left with this.

 

PAM3 Restrictor:

AR: AK-47 (no idle sway and gunkick), M4 (no idle sway and gunkick), MP44 (to humiliate the other team)

SMG: AK-74u (no idle sway and gunkick, 24 ammo cap), MP5 (reduced recoil and no gunkick)

LMG: None

Shotguns: None

Sniper Rifles: Bolt Action (No sway for .5 seconds, gun retracts after shooting)

Pistol: GOLD DEagle (default), DEagle (selectable)

 

From ProMod:

Grenades: Frag (up to host), Smoke

Perks: None (technically, Bando/SP/DI)

Killstreaks: None

Radar: up to host

Health: up to host (30, 50, 100)

Attachments: Silencer (for M4 with radar option on)

Graphics: removed muzzle flash (because different video cards render it differently, giving some people advantage/disadvantage)

etc,

 

ProMod is fun for S&D, but that is about it. It completely removes the CoD4 element. PAM made it worse by removing variety.

 

Here is nice rant about ProMod, which goes through the mechanics in detail: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/829177

 

Edit:

Again, Gunkick is not recoil. Gunkick is visual recoil, which makes some guns bounce more or less, making some guns feel like they have more or less (usually more) recoil than they actually do. The AK-47 for example is very accurate, but has a huge vertical Gunkick, making it harder to aim and gives you the illusion of more recoil.

 

Edit 2:

Actually, I lied, my favorite mod is the paintball mod, for the lulz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XVmaKz2Tq0

Edited January 2, 2011 by Wong

[Shirtless Crackhead]

More like Profag, amirite?

[Rachis]

Eh the PC world is a lot different than the console world. Promod probably makes the game a lot more enjoyable on the PC than we'll ever see on the console.

[Wong]

More like Profag, amirite?

More like CS-Mod if you play S&D. Otherwise, yeah, pretty much.

 

Eh the PC world is a lot different than the console world. Promod probably makes the game a lot more enjoyable on the PC than we'll ever see on the console.

I liked ProMod because people took S&D seriously (most of the time). People (usually 2+ out of 5) would actually communicate through headsets. No one really screws around. However, ProMod TDM and HQ (the only other gametypes) is pointless. All people do is screw around but with ProMod settings. I rather play regular CoD4 without all the restrictions and edits to the game mechanics.

 

--------------------

 

Anyways, getting back on BOPS. Den came up an equation that relates recoil and center speed, and seems to be accurate so far. More tests are needed.

Recovery Time (in seconds) = 5 * Viewkick (aka recoil, not constant) / Center Speed (constant)

 

For example ... for the M14 + Grip

Maximum Necessary Recovery Time = 5 * Highest Possible Viewkick / Center Speed = 5 * 50 / 1600 = .25 seconds = 240 RPM

Since I used the highest possible recoil that the M14 can get is 50, if I program a controller to shoot every .25 seconds (or at 240 RPM), I will get essentially NO recoil from the M14 + Grip, because the recoil will always be fully recovered.

[Mom]

world at war still has the best semi-auto rifles in the series post cod4. I wish black ops' semi-auto rifles were more like waw.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

cod4 M14 was the best. put a suppressor on it with stopping power and it basically turned into a stealth sniper