Armored Core Battles #1: Phantasma vs NineBall Seraph

[Extended]

Note to the MODERATORS i hope these topics are fine. if not hide them and push them to the deepest corners of this forum.

 

Who would win?

 

Phantasma

 

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/Snagg57/Phantasma-1-1.jpg

 

Or

 

NineBall Seraph

 

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/Snagg57/NineballSereph.jpg

 

Discuss and Dispute but keep it clean.

 

Here are RULES

1.) All AC's keep their traits from their original game. (I.E Phantasma has UBER large missiles)

2.) Don't be biased due to "Popularity" Speak out for yourself, state your opinion. (I.E NineBall would own xxxx)

3.) Explain in as much detail as possible. (5 word sentences don't help)

 

 

Phantasma would win, RAINBOW LASERS OF DEATH would own NineBall Seraph any day. NB:S's transforming won't save him.

[Magnus]

A walk in the park versus a death wish is a stupid comparison.

 

This is a second sentence.

 

Even in AA, Stinger comes before Seraph.

 

This is a fourth sentence.

 

A better fight would be a basic Orbital Frame versus Nineball Seraph, or Phantasma versus Francis from L4D.

[Niji Superfan]

You can't beat Ultimate Nineball by standing on top of him and just aiming down like an asshole.

 

Suffice to say, Nineball takes this one by a longshot. A more realistic fight would've been, say, Ultimate Nineball vs. the Super Airborne Pulverizer, and I still think that's a pretty one-sided matchup.

 

Actually, Aretha vs. U9B might be an interesting fight.

[Extended]

You can't beat Ultimate Nineball by standing on top of him and just aiming down like an asshole.

 

One Day......

[Pendragon]

Damnit, voted for the pussy Phantasma by mistake.

 

My actual vote goes for Nineball Seraph. He keeps coming back over and over again like a Dragon Ball Z villain. And he just keeps betting stronger.

 

Spoiler! --Click Here to View!--

Unlike a DBZ villain though, I'd go gay for Nineball.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Pendragon

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

The funny thing is 9ball seraph can get wiped out kinda fast with stabby quads in AA. I mean, yeah that's not "on top" but it's "just to the side" and it's about as fast as any death, haha.

 

Also 9ball seraph has one big problem the first time you fight him: the game is ungodly unbalanced. The large missiles wipe him out without you ever really even seeing him much.

 

I guess none of that matters though because 9ball seraph would mop the floor with Stinger. It's not really even a contest. Stinger was slow even in his last form and seraph was fast and had a bunch of crazy powerful attacks, and I guess most importantly he had the huge laser swords to hack at slow ass Stinger with.

[Tsuranga]

Seraph would win hands down. phantasma is strong and all and has solar flare but.... seraph is faster and more versitile in a fight.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

MoA's "V Missiles of DOOM" dual back unit smokes them both.

 

But, I would concede the fight to 9ball due to the blading, he rushes and blades Stinger to death, end fight.

 

Although the kaleidoscope ray gun Phantasma has is pretty damn cool.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Enganacious

[Barrettiel]

Nine-ball Seraph wins hands down. Phantasma stands no chance.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

9-ball cant blade tanks

if phantasma is low enough to the ground, 9-ball got no chance

[Extended]

9-ball cant blade tanks

if phantasma is low enough to the ground, 9-ball got no chance

You have a great point.

[Pendragon]

9-ball cant blade tanks

if phantasma is low enough to the ground, 9-ball got no chance

 

A tank might not last against infinite overboost, multiple missiles which fly vertically, thus being dangerous to tanks, and pulse+machine gun fire.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

yeah, but 9ball is an retard

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

So is Phantasma.

[Geist X]

Assuming they're just like they are when you fight them in each respective game, then Phantasma would win.

 

Phantasma has far more AP than Nineball Seraph does. Phantasma's energy defense is extremely high, and his shell defense is a lot better. You can kill Nineball with less than 12 Large Missiles. 24 won't kill Phantasma. Phantasma can take over 15 moonlight waves without dying.

 

Phantasma's ground speed is faster than Nineball's ground speed. That is to say, Phantasma can back up faster than Nineball can boost forward. You can outrun Nineball with the LN-501 legs, but you can't keep up with Phantasma when he scoots away. Nineball is only more mobile in jet mode. Nineball would end up getting taken down by Phantasma's missiles, rather than the Laser Shower. Nineball can't deal with the long range, ridiculous damage PP AT Missile. Not considering Phantasma has an infinite number.

 

As a boss Phantasma is more formidable. People take for granted how difficult Phantasma is to beat, because most people used the AT and the Finger to beat Phantasma, and with those weapons, which are completely broken in Project Phantasma, he's pretty easy to take down. However, trying beating Phantasma without the Finger or the AT. It's a lot harder than just equipping missiles to beat Nineball.

 

Going by AI Logic? Nineball starts blading. Phantasma backs up and does the laser shower. Nineball goes into jet mode and avoids a few hits while spamming machine gun and missiles. Laser Shower Stops. Phantasma spams missiles and ATs. Nineball starts taking heavy damage. Nineball goes to the ground to start blading. It repeats until Nineball is dead. Nineball can't get past Phantasma's defense.

 

Nineball definitely looks cooler, but Phantasma wins by a lot. Too much AP and Defense.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Geist X

[Harakiri Tiger]

Wow, he just totally reamed Seraph. New guy rocks.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

I didn't use finger or AT.

[Tsuranga]

I didn't use finger or AT.

 

That...... is a good point. Phantasma must be a LOT harder without it :S I wouldn't know cuz I just used finger XD

[Falco]

I think this is even because even though phantasma only fires around like a jackass, 9ball will probably OB into every single shot being the stupid motherfucker he is, and 9ball can ultrapwn him with his fucking death weaponry.

 

EDIT: You should add killdozer to the poll.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Godfather Ucamulbas

[Harakiri Tiger]

You didn't beat him, either.

 

 

 

EDIT: GOD FUCKING DAMMIT YOU TWO. YOU FUCKING NINJA'D ME AND RUINED MY JOKE. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. I FUCKING HATE YOU. FUCK!

 

EDIT: =3

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

It was a lame joke anyways.

 

That red phantasma was a pussy. You can beat him with rockets. I don't remember him being fast in the least, either. His laser attack would only hurt at point blank if you took the whole thing. 24 large missiles to kill him? Say what? In fact, why am I even arguing this with words?

 

Assuming our boy Cacophanus didn't miss, that was 5 large missiles, 7 grenades, 10 k-saw beams. Durable? Sure. 24 large missiles? Nah.

 

Pretty fast, no?

 

I think it's the other way around. Phantasma would get merc'd by k-saw and missile spam at mach 3 from the Seraph. You're overestimating how often Seraph blades. That's all assuming AI logic of course. It'd be far worse if we had two people controlling them.

 

Seraph by teabag.

[Geist X]

When I say Large missile I'm not talking about the AT, since it's impossible to have 24 of them. I'm talking about the L201 that Cacophanus uses in his second vid to kill Nineball Seraph. The one that comes equipped with 12 per unit. 24 of those won't kill Phantasma. But actually that vid you posted is a perfect example of what I'm talking about;

 

5 AT Missiles, 9830 damage each;

10 Karasawa beams, 1550 damage each(more since he has the optional part equipped);

7 Grenades, 3520 damage each;

 

That's 49150 + 15500 + 24640 = 89290 damage in order to kill Phantasma.

 

In Cacophanus's video against Nineball Seraph he only connects with 4 L201 missiles which do 4300 damage each. That's only 17200 damage. Phantasma has at least 5 times as much AP, though it's hard to tell for certain because it has more shell defense, and extremely high energy defense as well. With 2 Magazines and a Karasawa it's impossible to kill Phantasma.

 

In AC mode NS's boost speed is slow. I thought he was fast at first too, until I realized I was boosting straight up and he was boosting directly towards me on the ground. Anyone who tries to fight NS on the ground notices how slow he is. He can be outran with any AC with LN-501 legs.

 

In this vid you'll notice that when Phantasma starts moving(not when he stops to attack) he's impossible to flank running with the LN-501 legs.

 

 

In order to accurately compare ground speed, you'd have to use the same AC against both bosses, and the player would have to fight on the ground instead of hanging back from a distance and safely spamming missiles. I'd upload some old vids of mine, but I can't find any DVD to MPEG converting freeware that doesn't put it's icon in the middle of the MPEG. So without more accurate visual evidence I won't argue the speed point in detail, because NS's airspeed is still insane.

 

The problem is that NS takes most of his damage when he's in jet mode, from missiles...and Phantasma does most of his damage, from missiles. I can't see Nineball Seraph's weak missiles doing that much damage to Phantasma considering how high his defense is. Nineball Seraph's flashiness doesn't overcome Phantasma's defense.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

You're right about NS's ground speed, but he can fire while flying. That basically spells the end for Phantasma. Well, almost. The AI might actually be stupid enough to lose this somehow, considering how much armor Phantasma has. It might do something stupid like blitz the Phantasma and eat rainbow lasers and missiles at pointblank.

 

If it's not AI controlling, I don't think there is any way Phantasma can win no matter how many times you ran the fight. The firing while flying and ability to fly forever are pretty telling. Phantasma doesn't have much means of combating that. Consider both videos. You humiliated Phantasma with rockets. It's missile offense was flaccid before your rocketeer offensive. That's with you jumping up and down and hooving it. That's with your lightweight frame that took a max of 1.5k from a direct hit.

 

You just proved Phantasma doesn't do much damage, and we already saw how slow it is. It's big advantage is its enormous amount of AP. If the AI plays stupid enough that will be enough for it to pull out a win. Otherwise, it's getting trolled as badly as you trolled it with rockets in your video.

 

EDIT: awesome video btw. I love watching that idiot die to rockets.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Colon Mokto

[Geist X]

The question is how effective the Phantasma laser shower is against Nineball's flight mode. When Nineball fly's away, the laser shower shouldn't hit, but when he gets close enough to rain down laser shots and machine gun shots, he should get hit by it. My vote is still for the Phantasma over Nineball.

 

The lightweight AC is relatively weak...but in terms of it's shell defense it's not that different from NS. That AC can take 4 large missiles(L201) and still have a sliver of AP left over. NS has very good energy defense, but really bad shell defense.

 

Glad you liked the vid. I have another one where I beat Nineball Seraph with just rockets, but there's this very annoying logo slapped in front of the video so you can't see anything.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

The range thing is something I don't think either of us could answer definitively. I guess it ends there.

 

Even against the computer. It's just inherently funny to me. Edited December 13, 2010 by Colon Mokto