Making ACs a Reality

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Danger Rangers don't need wonder armor, they win via speed, surprise, force of violence, and of course, stealth lunar spears.

 

Armor would only slow down the carnage.

 

All kidding aside, next-generation polymer fabrics and light-weight ablative ceramic plates would probably be an upgrade, albeit stylistically the same as contemporary body armors.

 

 

Skip to ~5:15 and you'll see ol' boy testing a ballistic plate that is buoyant in water, meaning it's WAY lighter than standard ceramic plates.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

All kidding aside

 

danger rangers dont kid around the only time they play is in blood

 

the blood of our enemies

 

that video is fun

[Shirtless Crackhead]

I'd actually venture to say that carbon nanomaterials like graphene will make things like ceramic plates much lighter and more durable. However, it won't change the overall paradigm.

[Exorcet]

I'm no idiot, there are hurtles to the endeavor but flight was considered not only SciFi, but pointless to even pursue with the technology that was present when it was finally invented. Engineers, scientists, and most everyone else believed it fallacy to pursue because of the amount of weight in fuel you would have to carry to attempt any prolonged flights, not to mention design specs that seemed insurmountable at the time. Still, a few advocates worked for years on it till they proved that not only was it possible, it was viable AND performed better than anticipated. Since then it has become the apex means of civil and commercial mass transportation, edging out all other means of mass transit in every field save the most massive payloads that at this time can only be transported via freight, and were still working on minimizing that. Much less getting into space, orbit and beyond. Using electricity as the primary mover in thrust baffles people now, but not only is it possible, it's being used to keep modern satellites in geosynchronous orbit. Literally nothing more than a bunch of sub-atomic particles. We are a hard-headed species, hard to persuade without direct physical proof of viability. But, we have to mental capacity to follow through no matter what the odds seem like. Time and time again, we have proven that science fiction is usually prelude to science fact, given time and dedication.

 

Just on this, the people saying planes weren't coming were right until they were wrong. It only makes sense to make predictions based on what you know or else anything can be valid and there is no point in making a prediction. Saying that anything is possible is a waste of time because it means all the knowledge we have now means nothing.

 

It is possible though extremely unlike that AC's or something become viable in the future, but at this point it's clearly a no and it's basically in everyone's best interest to say it's a no because that's what the evidence supports. Betting on slim odds never makes sense.

 

Also the whole flight thing wasn't so one sided, the understanding that led to the Wright Brothers' flight started back in the 1700's if not earlier. Planes didn't go from impossible to test flights over night.

 

As was said before many times, large robots need to overcomes their flaws and lack of unique benefits (the technology to make them is better used elsewhere) before they can be taken seriously.

 

 

 

Also planes

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EnttHIgx8s

Edited July 17, 2013 by Exorcet

[Necron]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Bmpt_REA_2009.jpg

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

psh a ksaw would totes rip dat bish a pot

[ManintheArmor]

Issue 1: SQUARE-CUBE LAW.

 

Solution 1: Better materials, usually a composite of high-strength and high-compression materials. But, due to possible resource scarcity, this might not be the best solution.

 

Solution 2: Increase height without increasing weight by making the internal structure more hollow. This is one of the structural factors that allowed the dinosaurs to roam our planet a million or so years ago.

 

Solution 3: Decrease density, use lifting gas. This won't decrease the mass mind you, this will only reduce the structure's density relative to the surroundings. This is what allows whales to grow to massive sizes, and allows us to use blimps. Helium is good, but due to scarcity it needs to be recycled. Hydrogen also good; lighter, more plentiful, easily recycled, but flammable. Sufficient lifting gas content, especially in the upper body, will prevent the AC from falling over.

 

For the sake of resource efficiency, or ephemeralization, it would be a good idea to integrate the skeletal structure with the armor. Redundancies may be appreciated, especially in the legs, if you want to keep your AC moving. It is also important to keep the legs heavy and the torso squat to prevent the AC from tipping over.

 

~~~

 

Issue 2: Energy.

 

Considering ACs might be between 20-50 tons (more so for tank ACs and models before 5th Gen), great amounts of energy would be required to run these machines. Fossil fuels will have become extremely scarce, so other means of power generation would be required. List of candidates below.

1. Flammable chemicals - From natural gas, ammonia, and other such plentiful sources of hydrogen, these chemicals can be used to run the AC, especially the nimble 5th Generation models. However, due to low energy density, one would need a much more efficient combustion engine. As well, over 30% of the AC's weight would have to be fuel, not counting the numerous electrical capacitors throughout the AC's body. 50% if you wanted to go on longer, and 90% if you wanted to leave Earth's gravitational well (as in the case of space shuttles)
   
2. Photovoltaic - Covering the AC in solar panels like Superman or Space Marine Power Armor. The AC would be granted a plentiful source of energy, be it from the sun or infrared radiation (
   ). Might even be installed in the engine compartment. Of course, covering the outside of the AC would mean that every time you got hit, you'd lose power generation. As well, your AC would have to look something like a tree to increase surface area.
   
3. Thorium - Uranium-235 reserves would likely have been depleted in the future, so other sources of nuclear power would be required. Thorium is plentiful, and provides great energy density. However, considering the stability of Thorium, you'd need to either transmute it into Uranium, or use faster neutrons. Other technical issues exist also.
   
4. Fusion-Boosted Fission Reactor - This method involves using a small source of fast neutrons to assist in splitting the nuclei of heavy elements such as Thorium. This is basically the same method used to boost so-called 'Hydrogen Bombs'. Of course, every time you turned on the engine, you'd need to produce a fusion reaction (between Deuterium and Tritium or such) to get these neutrons.
   
5. Fusion - Current technical viability questionable. Basically you're using a micro-fusion reactor (Iron Man, Spartan John-117) to create a sustainable source of energy. Aneutronic methods exist, but they require rare fuels such as Helium-3.
   
6. Infinite Energy Matter - Note, fictitious; existence in doubt. This involves using matter that has an infinite amount of kinetic energy (regardless of velocity) relative to our universe, allowing for an unlimited source of power. However, this presumes that there is such a thing as unstoppable matter. Feasibility questionable, as such a matter would need some means of control. It would need some means of 'redirection' since its kinetic energy is infinite in our universe. Also, such a matter would need a finite energy in its own dimension, otherwise its unstobbability would prevent it from creating stable particles (because unaccelerable objects pass through one another; they can't create matter in the first place).
   

Aside from just generating power, you'd also need a means to store excess energy as well for later use. The frame would need numerous capacitors throughout the body to allow the AC to sprint, jump, and other such feats that require a sudden burst of energy. Generating power alone would just expend the AC's fuel supply. You'd also need a means of energy management to save on fuel or increase mobility. Remember, you need to be careful with your resources.

 

~~~

 

Issue 3: Armor and Defense

 

Weight-to-weight (compared to tanks), the human form isn't exactly armor efficient. Horizontal platforms such as tanks and aircraft have much less area to hit (in the front). Trying to armor a vertical platform would require additional weight and coverage. One would need to figure a way to keep it protected without making it so heavy.

Might have better luck wearing a suit of

.

1. Structural Integration - The armor and frame are one and the same, in the form of an exoskeletal design . This saves on weight and provides more internal room for things like sensors and capacitors.
   
2. Redundancies - Instead of trying to armor the AC, one would simply increase the number of redundancies in the AC, allowing it to function despite receiving damage. Extra bones, more actuators (in the form of artificial muscles), more circuits. These multiple components might also increase performance, but at the cost of energy.
   
3. Decrease Vertical Profile - 5th Gen AC are one example. Their profile is lower compared to older generations, allowing armor to be much more concentrated. This also allows for the use of those distinctive 'knee shields'.
   
4. Decrease Horizontal Profile - For taller ACs, you'd have to make them less wide and more angular. Armor would be concentrated in the front, much like in 4th Gen ACs.
   
5. Armor them anyways - Despite certain inefficiencies in the humanoid form, one cannot deny the amount of additional defense provided by limbs. Still, it is important to keep vitals such as legs and core armored. Mobility is about as important as keeping the pilot safe.
   

~~~

 

Other Issues

 

Stability - Good thing ACs have multiple leg types. But for those sticking to the humanoid form, one must take into account the inherent instability from frontal forces (thus why in ACV they're portrayed as having a low firing rate). Hip joints are directed forward, and are most stable against forces from the rear. One would need a powerful gyroscopic sensor to compensate, or the upper body must be naturally buoyant.

 

Firearm Recoil - Considering the size of AC firearms, they'd have to have some serious recoil. Either the bullets are miniature rockets, or the arms have excellent ability to process forces against the arm. Not that the firearm isn't equally massive, and one must take into account the weight of the arm as well. Firearms might have some form of recoil-cancellers to assist in recoil management as well.

 

Piloting - Considering ACs aren't strictly humanoid in form, most likely the the interface would need to accommodate multiple forms beyond the humanoid one. Chances are that much of the processing is done by the machine rather than the human. Also, you'd need some way to dampen inertia or brace the pilot for lighter ACs.

 

EMP Protection - The AC uses some very advanced technology, possibly involving micro electronics. For it to function would require that its outer shell serve as a Faraday Cage, while the important components are guarded by non-conductive materials. That means one cannot remote control an AC, and the AC would need to be controlled from the inside.

 

RESOURCES - The greatest obstacle to producing ACs, considering they might weigh well within 100 tons (less than 50 for smaller models), is resources. Producing them would require knowledge in numerous fields, as well as reallocating existing resources into their production (thus why mundane vehicles suck compared to ACs).

 

Money - A single quality AC would probably cost about as much as current powered exoskeleton prototypes, times 2000 (estimation based on price x weight). Tank ACs might likely be cheaper due to design simplicity. You'd have to throw the traditional monetary system out the window if you want to produce these things in greater numbers, with limitations now based on time, energy, and resources. Which makes me think, what the heck kind of currency do they use in the future?

 

Other issues to be discussed later.

 

~~~

 

Stages of Production

 

The definition of AC is much looser compared to mecha such as Gundam, therefore production of the first prototype would be much easier.

1. First line of ACs will likely be Tanks, since they'd require little modification from existing armaments. Drive system would require significant modification to accommodate a single pilot.
   
2. Second line of ACs would be Quads as balancing systems advance. Evolution would be slow, starting from simply skating across the ground to actual walking. This would also be an opportunity to develop other technologies.
   
3. As balancing systems improve, ACs will take on a bipedal form.
   
4. Then comes the development of boosters and nuclear reactors, which would be the final step in making what would be defined as a proper AC.
   

Do also note, as a byproduct of AC development there would be to advancements in other technologies, such as propulsion, energy, electronics, structural engineering, etc. A single AC requires hefty education in numerous fields. By the time you produced a single AC, you'd have demonstrated and advanced our understanding of reality. The AC alone is a technological marvel.

 

~~~

 

Feasibility and Utility

 

Long story short (and to save text), the human body can do many fancy things. Now scale that form up to 5 or 10 meters, give it the ability to fly, and imagine what one can do. Such a form would be useful in applications where height is needed, along with multi-functionality, durability, toughness, and endurance.

 

Considering the AC is not restricted to a single form, it is useful in a variety of applications, while being able to specialize when necessary. The whole purpose of the AC is modularity and adaptability. At the same time, it utilizes a standardized template, allowing for mass production.

 

Remember, it is an armored CORE. The humanoid form is simply the one we are most comfortable with due in part to human vanity. It's kinda like how Furries tend to make most of their fursona's humanoid, even though they're adding animal components. Of course, I'm pretty sure everyone is still curious about what it'd be like to scale the human form. Becoming like giants (of steel and ceramite) has been a persistent dream of people.

 

I'd like FROM's details on AC design. They've never been clear with the blueprints.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

no matter what you do

 

ACs will just fall over

[Necron]

So where is the pressure from the lifting gas going to go, and where is the gas stored? Because all the enemy would have to do is aim there and make the AC fall over.

[Shirtless Crackhead]

It also can't be compressed, because then it's not counter-acting weight.

[Liarbird]

Speaking of which. Once you unlock hardcore mode in ACVD, try playing either Gambler or One-Shot kill and you will quickly learn why ACs are.. really a bad idea.

 

both of those game modes, everyone is made of paper, because the weapons are doing real world comparable damage. Suddenly its possible to one-shot kill most ACs with standard weaponry, and the same goes for you.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

hahahahahah omg that post is incredible

 

i think u should leave it here even if u do c/p it over to the acvd thread cuz that shit is very rare

[Liarbird]

thing is, it puts it into perspective for those playing the game. A single MANPAD can cripple a mech, and a Javelin would outright wreck one, all of which are man portable weapons.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

yeah pretty much

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Call of Duty: Mech Wafare

 

Followed by Weeaboo Ops.

[Xander95]

• Would an armored core do good or bad for the world?
  

I would have to say good.

• Does the world need armored cores?
  

Yes. Todays weapons are too low tech by now.

• Are armored cores even an engineering possibility with, say, our current technological breakthroughs?
  

Yes.

• What purpose would ACs serve on the battle field? Think about the roles current weapon systems serve and find gaps.
  

They would be good to use against aircraft or giant weapons of mass destruction (ex. alien ships.)

[Shirtless Crackhead]

Read the damn thread before posting insane shit.

[Tidus Klein]

• Would an armored core do good or bad for the world?
  

I would have to say good.

• Does the world need armored cores?
  

Yes. Todays weapons are too low tech by now.

• Are armored cores even an engineering possibility with, say, our current technological breakthroughs?
  

Yes.

• What purpose would ACs serve on the battle field? Think about the roles current weapon systems serve and find gaps.
  

They would be good to use against aircraft or giant weapons of mass destruction (ex. alien ships.)

 

aliens really

i have thought this over for a long time now and really the only place and AC would be needed is super dense deep mud jungles or extremely mountainous terrain. that's it period end of story.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

thats what helicopters are for

[Aokiryu89]

• Would an armored core do good or bad for the world?
  

I would have to say good.

• Does the world need armored cores?
  

Yes. Todays weapons are too low tech by now.

• Are armored cores even an engineering possibility with, say, our current technological breakthroughs?
  

Yes.

• What purpose would ACs serve on the battle field? Think about the roles current weapon systems serve and find gaps.
  

They would be good to use against aircraft or giant weapons of mass destruction (ex. alien ships.)

 

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/This+guy+right+here_6dc751_3251652.jpg

[Shirtless Crackhead]

http://i.imgur.com/hlPjWfF.gif

[Nomrah]

hahaha!

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/INSANE-O-FLEX/dolfin_zps06d6dd9d.gif

[Shirtless Crackhead]

http://i.imgur.com/bvqb3AQ.gif

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

They would be good to use against aircraft or giant weapons of mass destruction (ex. alien ships.)

 

x-com does fine against alien ships with human tech and stolen alien tech fuck ACs

Edited November 18, 2013 by YUNG ADULT CONTEMPORARY