Bakuhatsu Pengin Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 yeah they let all their games for a good 2-3 expansions nexus era got like 4 games acv has been out for a year and its been doing extremely well in japan because theres actually enough people playing it to support the 10-player gamestyle, which solves a good portion of acvs problems and theres a new acv game coming out as far as "letting it breathe" goes what im sayin is why should they rehash acsl right here right now instead of trying new formulas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exogen Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 They can try new formulas, sure, but you need to keep an ESSENCE of what makes it armored core. Like they aren't just building robots at random. Once you start having certain basic setups, the other mechanics go with it. think of it like this. You can't have a square unless you have all four equal lines. Similarly, if you start messing with the basics of AC mechanics, weird imbalances start to emerge. All these problems with the boost system and all that result from these issues. FROM has like half a square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) 2-3 expansions each? AC1 got 2AC2 got 1; basically AC1+a few new mechanics+new graphicsAC3 got 1; unless you couldnt NX-LR (I wouldn't) which would make it 4; basically AC2+a few new mechanics+new graphicsNX got 2; AC3+a few new mechanics+new graphics Look at the release dates bruh, that shit did not breathe: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Armored_core I bet you if we were all playing LR together in some magical situation where we all lived on the same city we'd still be discovering all kinds of shit about the game. Strategies and the like. Now imagine if a game like that got to enjoy updates and/or DLC? I'm sayin tho! acv has been out for a year and its been doing extremely well in japan because theres actually enough people playing it to support the 10-player gamestyle, which solves a good portion of acvs problems and theres a new acv game coming out as far as "letting it breathe" goes what im sayin is why should they rehash acsl right here right now instead of trying new formulas That's fine with me I'm not talking about ac5. For all I know it's the greatest game in history. I haven't played it. You buggin cuhz this isn't even about SL. This is about what exogen just said "whole fundimentals (sic) of the game keep changing". Basically I'm arguing this: from doesnt want to reuse mechanics because why play the new game thats the same as the old games if you can just play the old game This logic is weak to me. To move this to AC4 and fa, wasn't fa wildly different from AC mechanics-wise? And didn't AC4 have a bunch of regulations that were pretty different from one another (like say AC3 to SL different)? In 2 years? You calling that breathing? I'd prefer FROM try new things then rehash them endlessly. A few bumps in the road don't matter much to me if they hit their mark eventually. You aint hitting a single mark if you keep getting a new target (and a new weapon) http://youtu.be/d29VsG35DQM Practice makes perfect son that's why you ain't win titles AI (FROM)! Edited June 5, 2013 by YUNG ADULT CONTEMPORARY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exogen Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Just imagine if SF had like, mortal kombat mechanics in its next game? Every SF fan would be up in arms over that shit, me included. Now what if an AC game goes and plays like Virtual On or Front Misson evolved? Suddenly, that would be ok? It isn't "rehashing" the same mechanics, it's about have a stable essence for which diferent kinds of games can be built on that platform. If you change the fundimentals than wtf kind of continuity do you really have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 man fuck you exogen I can't believe you made the same point in less words than me that's inception tier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exogen Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 ha ha, I guess I must be getting better. I'm learning to not say a word with a paragraph :0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 so good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exogen Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 PD, I am still rocking at surffing with the alien shit. I got the whole album. Killing that shit! Anyways, Ok, so I think this side of the argument is pretty clear now. Let's call it the argument for stable or continuous fundimentals or some shit like that. The opposite side, in this case represented by Noob and Pen, seems to be that it would be lame to rehash the same mechanics again and again. I want to understand deeper why we should be changing these fundimentals? Or to say it another way why having solid a concistent fundimentals that are built on through time, why that model is a bad idea, especially when changing the fundimentals can lead to such disasterous outcomes? Pen said, they will hit the mark eventually. But I didn't realise shit was broken? And if it ain't broken then why fix it? If it works for other franchises, why not AC? so help me out here, I want to understand deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 seriously tho the other point i'm making is that while the idea of "rehashing" is generally a bad one, the idea of "improving" isn't. We don't always get things right the first time. That doesn't necessarily mean you should just throw it away and start over completely, unless it's fundamentally flawed. honestly, AC5 being a team-oriented game in theory doesn't bother me at all. It not being an AC game would bug me, though (which is what it sounds like)...if I were still trying to play. I can barely hold a controller now tho so fk it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exogen Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Right, the team oriented thing is seprate. I don't see why one has to go and drastically change the mechanics just to achieve that? The team balance issue stems from mainly armor and weapon properties, which don't have jack shit to do with boost mechanics in principle. They could have kept a solid mechanic and other things like the degrees to which you can aim up and down and all that shit. Instead they just went all out noob friendly. Of course people started discovering how dumb it is, who at first on noob level loved it, only to find out later that it has all sorts of wierd problems.., cough cough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakuhatsu Pengin Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 you goys type a million words a minute jesus fk what the hell are the fundamentals of ac as far as im concerned its building a robit and the build has a direct result with performanceboosting requires energy and energy regeneratesbiggest changes were boost types addedac1 to ac2 added OBac3 to ac4 added QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) what the hell are the fundamentals of ac as far as im concerned its building a robit and the build has a direct result with performanceboosting requires energy and energy regenerates most every robot game ever is basically that, either that or the robot is set specs and u fight doods in which case that game is basically same fundamentals as any other fighting game by your logic you're oversimplifying. You're implying virtual on -> super street fighter 4 -> mortal kombat Edited June 5, 2013 by YUNG ADULT CONTEMPORARY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakuhatsu Pengin Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 so then what are the fundamentals of ac and bullshit any other fighting game does not have the fabricating half of ac idk how that definition of acs fundamentals implied voot>sf>mk the fundamentals have remained the same its the drastic changes in mechanics that make them different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 you read it wrong. most every robot game ever is basically that, either that or the robot is set specs and u fight doods in which case that game is basically same fundamentals as any other fighting game by your logic you're oversimplifying. You're implying virtual on -> super street fighter 4 -> mortal kombat bolded so you see how a leads to b i never played voot i only played OG the drastic changes in mechanics are drastic changes in the fundamentals I gotta get back to you on how to define "fundamentals" tho in a way that you're asking since I don't agree with your oversimplification of it and i might actually have to describe it more than I can figure out off top straight up tho if you try to make an AC game with how you define the fundamentals...you're not gonna get anywhere. What you said could basically be anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necron Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Now what if an AC game goes and plays like Virtual OnExorcet would be in heaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 SL to Nexus is way more of a change than AC1 to AC2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakuhatsu Pengin Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 ok so then im lost on what the fundamentals of ac are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Fundamentals aren't adding overboost, that's for sure. I could still play LR without ever using an OB core and be like 'man, I'm playing AC!' It wouldn't be as fun tho. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 it can be lol i'll try and get back to u on it nob altho idk if you (or me) cares enough to really think about this more than we're doing this might just be something we won't agree on since it doesn't change a thing about verdict day or anything really you still my guy tho not trying to dodge you or ignore you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakuhatsu Pengin Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 ye ye i feel u its a lotta work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 it is when ur at work anyways hahaha describing the fundamentals of something as complex as AC is tricky tho for me anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exogen Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 That's why I used the term "essence" though and defined it analogously with the concept of a square. If you remove any of the essential fetures, the shit starts to break down or abnormalities occure. Some of the imabalnces in AC4 can illustrate the point. LW's were able not only to carry way to much but way to much on their arms. The arm weight stat got removed, which was something present from day one. Bringing back the arm weight stat would put an end to the aburd dual wielding of these powerhouse weapons on AC's that shouldn't have that many of them. Also, it prevents underweighting. These things were put in for a reason. Another, firing the cannon based weapons while moving. AC4 fucked that up too. The result was it made bipeds dominant when they shouldn't have been and tanks only strong because of backpedaling, which was another imabalance - itself a deviation from the general principles of AC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) I agree. I liked AC4, FA and V, but it felt like kind of a downgrade from the perfection that was LR and SL. I think we also need the heat function back, if that hasn't already been suggested. I'm playing through LR portable right now, and you won't believe how careful you have to be balancing heat stats from outside sources and then balancing them ontop of the heat generated by your own generator/booster setup. Edited June 6, 2013 by Pendragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) Just use low cal generator. I never really bothered with cooling tunes or heat stats all that much. I usually tuned def and weight. Edited June 6, 2013 by The OB Express Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exogen Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I don't ever want to see heat back again. And I never liked heat, even going back to where in started in AC2. I always thought it was a dumb idea, restricted or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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