Armored Core: Verdict Day Discussion

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

I DIDN'T MIND IT BUT I COULD LIVE WITHOUT IT TOO. I WILL SAY THE ADDITION OF HEAT WAS PRETTY SMART BECAUSE IT WAS A CLEVER WAY OF BALANCING THE OTHER NEW MECHANIC (OVERBOOST) AND IT DID HELP TO ADJUST REGULAR BOOST MECHANICS IN SOME NEAT WAYS.

[exogen]

Yeah, that is probably why they did it. But why can't OB be controled by EN? They tried to control OB in AC4 also with the PA system and I thought that was flawed as well.

 

I think AC doesn't have to be so complicated as they try to make it.

 

What AC needs is for them to streamline things. We don't need like six generators for every weight class. Just make like two or three really good ones that have a perfect balance against each other and build parts around those and other internal parts. We don't need like thirty FCS's just like three or four. The internal parts should be few in number with the number of frame parts increasing per area, and weapons even more so. It should open up like a flower.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Yeah, that is probably why they did it. But why can't OB be controled by EN? They tried to control OB in AC4 also with the PA system and I thought that was flawed as well.

 

I think AC doesn't have to be so complicated as they try to make it.

 

It's not that they couldn't. There's prolly a way but maybe they felt it would be easier to introduce heat than rework the energy rules. I was never bothered by it, and in my head anyways I have a harder time trying to balance out AC2-AC3 series games with no heat than I do with it. Also the idea that heat wouldn't be around seems kinda depressing. I like the new considerations it added tbh.

 

Basically they said "we're adding a new feature, so let's also add a new limit" instead of just scraping the old system. Something I'm usually down with.

 

AC4 is so wildly different from AC1-AC3 that I won't bother talking about why they got rid of heat in it. They kinda got rid of everything in that game.

 

What AC needs is for them to streamline things. We don't need like six generators for every weight class. Just make like two or three really good ones that have a perfect balance against each other and build parts around those and other internal parts. We don't need like thirty FCS's just like three or four. The internal parts should be few in number with the number of frame parts increasing per area, and weapons even more so. It should open up like a flower.

 

Nah, see, the shittier parts and stuff isn't for end game. They already assumed anyone wanting to win is using the best parts, and they don't care if you're either too stupid or too stubborn not to use the best parts when you want to win. And they shouldn't.

 

I read this real good essay awhile back about game design and why levels are constructed they way they are, mechanics, etc, and one of the big things they pointed out is that you want to convince the person playing that they are getting somewhere, not just progressing through the levels but also growing as a player. A simple way to achieve that is to provide items/equipment/parts/whatever that gets progressively better as they go that they have the option of acquiring and using. Sometimes, they make it that you need that stuff to actually get through the harder areas, but they leave it up to you to select it because they want you to feel like you made the decision. Part of giving that feeling of "I'm getting better and smarter at this game."

 

AC is doing the same thing with parts, basically.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

ac1 to ac2 added OB

ac3 to ac4 added QB

 

w ye

[The Fallen Raven]

In other news: 20 More screenshots and info about the Verdict Day story. https://www.facebook.com/armoredcore?fref=ts

[exogen]

Pd,

 

see I understand how having parts that are junk can help in introducing the player to new levels of play when they aquire the good parts. But that doesn't justify the gross imbalances they end up with either. You could still impliment what I said above, but just add junk parts into the mix, that, as you said, no one unless they are to stuborn or too dumb would use.

 

As for the heat. What I hated about heat is, why am I losing life (even in games where the overheating was rare) when I'm not getting hit by a bullet? Anything that takes away from the skills of outmanuvering people, is somehting I hate. That's one big reason why I hate ACV, cause it is against those players who have skills and want to outplay people and flank the hell out of them. Heat only worked against that as well, although in some games it was tolerable, where as other it got really really lame.

[Rachis]

Because you rack disciprine. Edited June 7, 2013 by Rachis

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

overheat happens when you dont properly manage your heat or you get your colon maxed by the opponent

 

the skill to prevent it is decision making

[exogen]

Rach. I like CQC. I am actually rather good at all the other areas as well. Exorcet, for instance, once played me and I was using a tank (thus he could testify to this - I doubt he has forgotten). To his surprise, and I quote him on saying that "your better than Chauve in a tank" (chauve was one of the best tank players on AC4 ps3). Now Exorcet was surprised because I never play tanks.

 

I'm a student of the game, you see, so I master all build types and learn all appropriate ranges accordingly. And yes, to be good at CQC you need to know the over ranges so you know how to get in and what to do when you aren't in your ideal range.

 

To reiterate myclarification in light of the heat system: so when I said "skills" I was talking about the kind of skills I like, but I think that even skills associated with other ranges aren't dependent on the heat system in order to classify them as being skillful.

[Rachis]

I'm a student of gaming. I'm not a particularly strong AC player as the only one I've really invested my time in during my "multiplayer era" was AC4. I'm also not a natural CQC player. I tend to use range to my benefit. What I have learned in getting good at CQC is that just because you have to do your work in close quarters doesn't mean you have to be there all the time. Sometimes, you have to force people to come to you. In AC, that means getting an AP lead and picking your battles. CQC machines are perfectly capable of this since they are supposed to be able to maximize their damage output during their offensive time. The way you talk, it sounds like you try to force CQC on your opponents all the time regardless of the situation. You just want to be able to flank people all the time and get frustrated when you can't.

 

From watching your SF play and from the kinds of things you're complaining about in here, I just don't think you yet have the mental strength to pull back and think outside of your comfort zone. Being a student of the game is one thing, but there are times when you just have to do things differently whether it's in your comfort zone or not.

 

It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

thanks for the advice mom

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Steve and nob get it.

 

To reiterate myclarification in light of the heat system: so when I said "skills" I was talking about the kind of skills I like, but I think that even skills associated with other ranges aren't dependent on the heat system in order to classify them as being skillful.

 

just cuz they aren't skills you like doesn't mean there aren't skills. Steve, nob, and I, all understand that. You just gotta open the 3rd eye up bruh then you'll get it too.

 

just don't overheat your other eyes while you do that hahahaha

[exogen]

PD, I'm not saying they aren't skills bro, perhaps I was unclear. I can see how when I compared the heat system to "skills" it might have seemed like I was making the heat system unskilled by comparison. This was not my intention. I just don't like that mechanics for the reasons I gave, mainly I don't think you should lose life unless you get hit by projectiles.

 

 

Rach,

 

perhaps your analysis has not gone deep enough bro. Have you played me at street fighter? I am well aware that you need to sometimes let people come to you. I run the clock in SF when the need arises.

 

I see things wholisticly, but that does not mean that just because I recognise the need to see the whole that I don't enjoy some of the parts more than others. Those two notions are not in contradiction with one another. I know the portrait you wish you paint, but your wrong on this one. And if you played me in SF you would realise very quick by how I would read you, that your assumptions were mistaken.

 

Edit: I just thought, now people are going to say that I'm telling people they are wrong again and how I know it all (not you rach). So let me add a disclaimer. I don't think Rach's characterization of me as a player is accurate. If anyone disagrees here please, lets see the evidence.

Edited June 7, 2013 by exogen

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

word I feel you on why you don't like them and I won't argue that necessarily cuz like...how do I put it. I don't like arguing how people feel about things. If you don't like something you don't like something and I can respect that. It's just when other claims are involved relating back to that that I don't agree with, those are what I'll argue.

 

So in your case, you said you don't like heat, which I was cool with, but then you said it didn't have skills involved you liked thus you felt it was pointless (and something else you said but i dont remember now what), which i sorta disagree with. Not so much the skills you like part, but that there are skills involved, then I referred back to what steve and nob said as my example of why.

 

that's all im saying really.

 

which I just read that and i got confused but w/e hopefully you get me

[exogen]

Well just to clarify further, I know the heat system is skillfull insofaras you need to make in game decisions so you don't overheat. Experts wont overheat, noobs will, hence the obvious demonstration of skill. I was refering to the skill set of manuvers and all that shit, which is where I forcus my attention, because that is the shit that I find the most fun.

[Mom]

I would have never believed it, but a topic called AC Verdict Day on ACU of all places is rapidly progressing with such a flood of words that I can't even keep up and don't want to keep up. Can you guys start posting tldr of your continual loop arguments?

[Rachis]

I think you misinterpreted my meaning. I wasn't calling you a bad player, exogen. I was just saying that you were an incomplete one. Everyone has stuff they need to work on. There's nothing wrong with that. I think your problem is impatience. It's something I run into with shooters all the time. Guys want to rush rush rush because it's fun and then they start blaming this and that for why they aren't doing as well as they could instead of recognizing their own mistakes. Edited June 7, 2013 by Rachis

[exogen]

Ok Rach, I see what you mean. I was on the level with what you were saying, minus the bad player part of it. I think what your saying is partially correct but partially mistaken. Its not so much the issue of impatience as it is an unwilingness to recognise the other tactic as part of the whole of the game. however, this has been MUCH MUCH less of a problem for me at this point, so much to the point now where it isn't even where I am as a player. Now my issues I am working on are more about not getting upset when the game isn't going my way, which is far far more general. I think your assesment of me was based on old information. I have evolved recently by alot.

 

Now to adress TM. Yeah my bad for my part of this. Its just we have been having so much fun!!

 

Let me try to bring it back to VD, if I can lol

 

One thing I think is cool about VD is that they changed the graphics engine and now I can see better on the game!!

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

fuck verdict day

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

no one likes vd

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

vd is gross and interferes with having real fun

 

not about that life my guy

[exogen]

lol

 

On the real level though, and just to show you guys I am not as one sided as you might think. I think there is always good in every bad.

 

For instance, in Armored Core venereal disease (VD I like to say) one mechanic I think FROM really did well on was that wall jump shit. I always had mixed feelings about the quick turn in AC4. On the one hand I liked it and found that it really didn't work well as a defensive move (which was the early criticism that people leveled against it as being defensive, ironically) and functioned as a more active flanking tool. However, while I saw through the argument that AC4 didn't have "real" flanking, I kind of liked the old way where it was harder to escape from a flank, once flanked, The grand overloard of ACU Niji said it best when he (she if your still confused...ah poor Tsu never new Niji was a man) said that AC4 is about maintaing a flank and prior AC is about getting one.

 

ACV sort of gives you the best of both worlds. You can use wall jump like QT to flank or escape, but only if cover is present and in the right respect. This makes context and positioning more relevant for that specific mechanic which makes this more interesting as opposed to a general universal mechanic like QT.

 

Now if they can just bring back all the cool other boost mechanics, the shit would be on point.

 

Switching back over the pessimism, another thing that has no real justifiable purpose in ACV is the lack of gravity. Remember how you could just fall by cutting your boosters, in past AC games to dodge or break locks? Seriously it takes you way to long to start falling and the speed at which you fall sucks. You can't it to get under people and break locks like before, you just get shot now. I know they did it because you don't have flight anymore, but damn, that just proves my point about the essentials of AC. You need flight because not having it forces them to out in this weak gravity shit which leads to more damage racy mechanics, which are dumb because they negate skill the more of them you add.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

skill in acv is decision making and teamwork and map awareness and positioning and team/ac composition

 

theres plenty of skill in acv but its not technical skill, which in theory is great for team games cuz it gets more players to get involved in the community if they dont have to deal with complicated technical skill

 

the main reason why most all of my friends never played any of the past acs is because it was too hard for them, even after they had tried to play through story mode

[exogen]

Yeah, but the irony here is that as accecible as ACV appears to be not as many people really find it fun enough over here. As technical as AC has always been it has always had a small but devoted market. FROM wants that shit to shrink into japan only I guess.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

i dont find it fun because namco sucks with regional support for western countries and they didnt do much about regulation updates or stopping team point fixing

 

id totally play the game if there were enough people on to make the game active