Why does new gen AC not have the old magic?

[Desert Fox]

After watching old AA/SL/NB/LR vids then watching some AC4 and AC5 vids, I got thinking about this again. It's clearer, for myself at least.

 

Here are a couple of my biggest reasons.

 

1. BASIC COMBAT

 

Combat doesn't look or feel very differentiated. QB and shoot. Over and over. While there's jockeying for position, it looks and feels repetitive to me. I don't see the distinctness in style compared to the old games where you had snipers, close quarters, supertanks, OB jousters, bladers, missile boats, quads.

 

Old AC games felt more like fighting games, attack and defend, looking for and trying to create openings that could be exploited. The new games look like keep boosting and shooting, just keep working on maintaining a good position almost constantly until someone loses.

 

I remember when Watcher's sniper fought my supertank in AA (I was a noob then) and had to change his strategy and tactics, and work to get his offense around my shield. Don't see that must-change-strategies but can-do with same AC and good piloting much in the new gen from what I can tell.

 

2. STRATEGY DE-EMPHASIZED

 

There's two aspects to this. First, there doesn't seem to be much if any planning to offenses anymore, just QB like crazy, position as you go, and shoot a lot. It's most obvious in the old games in AA - it's so slow it forces you to do more strategic thinking as you plan your attack when playing cat-and-mouse with cover. Now it seems to matter less, but that more calculated element of the older games was something I enjoyed.

 

It also seems to be missing the reliable "potential KO threat" of big missile swarms in AA or NB, but which were basically blockable through defenses. The haymaker punch so to speak - and without much telegraphing, but limited ammo. (doesn't work for guns - either too effective or ineffective)

 

3. NO PIZZAZ

 

Here I'm going on minimal info for the new games, so feel free to correct me.

 

One thing I liked a lot about the old AC games was the higher level tricks and maneuvers. Running after an OB, OB gliding, various turn booster stuff, blading to pull yourself after a fleeing opponent, etc. I don't know if such things are in the new games, but it looks like no, and if they are they don't seem be as cool - my sense is unless something can be abused for a win it doesn't rate very high. By contrast, OB gliding was useful and would help, every higher level player would use it, but it wasn't going to win matches by itself.

 

Seriously, just doing the tricks on your own was fun even if you weren't playing VS.

 

4. OVERCOMPLICATED MECHANICS & DESIGN

 

I don't have hours and hours to spend mastering new controls anymore - and it better be fantastic fun reward if I do. (not good enough as is)

 

I also don't have hours to figure out how to design a basic AC that works and can get the job done, or new overcomplicated and unnecessary mechanics. While old AC games had these problems too, for design at least you could basically grab an MG and a missile pack and be on your way.

 

AC parts also feel overly complicated - more spider or insect like than giant robot. Less human looking. They don't seem as cool. I'm not excited to see other people ACs and color schemes anymore.

 

5. STAGE/VISUAL CLUTTER

 

In the old Born City stage, it felt like someone threw a bunch of debris and junk on a hockey rink and before the players play. Interferes with movement and adds no value - shouldn't be there. I see similar in an AC5 mission vid, with an AC in a city "tripping" over clutter almost non-stop.

 

New AC games the FCS seems too busy, and too much clutter in the stages - for me there's too much distraction from targets and threats. Should be simple and easy to identify targets and threats purely by visual, and with less clutter from the FCS or stage.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

1 F

2 F

3 EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH yeah

4 T

5 AC5

 

there are no good players in ac4 or ac5 that upload anything worth a dam

 

its just a bunch of sturangas

[Taurus]

EN run out and have to walking for while to waiting for full-charge, variable movements with only normal boost, smooth feeling when turning, solid and energy defense, all of heat status, flying high without wall-jump....etc....

 

why they're all gone?

[Desert Fox]

Because Gundam sells more?

[Taurus]

dunno :-/ relationship about BAN-NAM and AC is just about world-wide marketing but it's still alone FROM SOFTWARE for JP site. maybe it's because FROM decided to change the standing point of AC game more than because of Gundam.

 

but as I said...dunno :-/

[Pendragon]

Armored Core never had magic in the first place. If you want magic with your robots, FROM made another game that miiiight suit your taste better.

 

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

frame gride is more ac than vd

[Griffon]

If you ask my opinion (which since the topic title is posed as a question, means you have), it's about accessibility, which you did touch on in your post. The older games may have had hours of garage-tinkering to do, but none of it was as needlessly complicated as current-gen AC is. The stats were understandable, even for a new player. They seem to have confused complexity for depth. I'll also agree with you regarding your first point. QB seems to have had a negative impact overall on the gameplay.

 

On a personal matter, to me a lot of what the series has neglected is local multiplayer. That's how I played with my friends, that's how I got them to like the game, and that's how I got good* at it. AC4 made local multiplayer a hassle by not allowing your friend to assess his ACs unless he traded them to you previously, and unless you both used the same control setup you have to go change THAT now. Not to mention you couldn't make changes to your AC on the fly. Making you exit multiplayer, go into single player, tinker with something, save, exit angle player, enter multiBLEGGHH… And now ACV has done away with it entirely, so I've dropped it. I can't play with friends on the weekends and I don't have the time to dedicate to a clan on weekdays.

 

Armored Core never had magic in the first place.

Oh please.

 

*Sort-of

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Oh please.

 

I'm with griffon

 

fuck out of here pendragon

 

it absolutely had magic thats why grenades were enormous fireballs

 

that's one of the things that made the game great, it looked like some gundam shit just big explosions and laser blades and flying everywhere

[Taurus]

rifles and missiles were my magic, that's what I'd use them before, even on ACV and VD.

 

edit : and it was also the first setup that we knew at first of every-single AC games.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Taurus

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

NO PIZZAZ

 

it definitely could use more pizzas

[Desert Fox]

Saw another AC VD video, and I can't get over all the flashing, colours and blurring when you get hit. Feels like someone jumping in front of the TV and yelling at you when you get hit. Distracting, annoying and not fun. Do people like these things? Although actually I'm reminded of AC1-MOA getting blasted by grenades...

 

In general it seems to lack the straightforward simplicity of the basic elements of the old games. (AC1-SL, mainly) Too much complicated for its own sake. The old ones just boosting was fun, not sure if that's still true.

 

Even though there's many things to consider in the old AC games, they're quickly obvious in play and easy to wrap your head around. Are the new ones like that?

 

It's too bad, us old school hardcore fans were mostly on the same page overall on where we thought AC should go - basically a more complicated, customizable character, balanced tactical 3D fighting game of sorts.

 

AC probably still has that potential but it'll probably never be realized anywhere near it. At this point I think its ship has sailed.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Desert Fox

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

yeah, and the sad thing is that pizzas could solve all of it

 

let's start a petition!

[Taurus]

ACV and VD are just like one man one job for me, they're a lot of hardcore players but not like us. (personally, I think ACV and VD were best games for the noob's rising up...didn't mean to offense someone anyway)

 

edit : KE/CE/TE, defense type by the legs, all kind of DMG rates are make the game too hard to playing with.

edit 2 : VD game play nowaday is something like infinite-boost-gliding (press L3 and push to some direction, then let it fly) all the time, and that will make you to put only one booster (it's SHINATSU in ACV and BA-309 in VD) to do as I said....what happened is other boosters would be useless stuffs.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Taurus

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

NEW AC GAMES ARENT OLD AC GAMES FUCK EVERYTHING

[Crimson Fury]

 

 

I'm with griffon

 

fuck out of here pendragon

 

it absolutely had magic thats why grenades were enormous fireballs

 

that's one of the things that made the game great, it looked like some gundam shit just big explosions and laser blades and flying everywhere

And guns that held ridiculous bulleta, and magic floating tanks.

[Mom]

Lockbox. One booster.

[Py687]

Saw another AC VD video, and I can't get over all the flashing, colours and blurring when you get hit. Feels like someone jumping in front of the TV and yelling at you when you get hit. Distracting, annoying and not fun. Do people like these things? Although actually I'm reminded of AC1-MOA getting blasted by grenades...

ACV was worse, it's basically ACVD with an instagram filter. Gats are annoying because they fuck up your screen too hard to see through. All I can say is you get used to it, but it's hard on the eyes initially.

 

yeah, and the sad thing is that pizzas could solve all of it

pizza pickups to recover AP

[Taurus]

also ACV and VD in my mind was something like......

 

KE bot = LBP, MBP, LRJ. (and they're all for CQC)

CE bot = HRJ and Quad. (they're often fucked by PMG, PG, plasma, and KARASAWA)

TE bot = HBP and Tank. (they're lack of speed, KE and CE were not high enough to called "heavy" especially HBP)

 

and these weapon setup looks like battle rifles everywhere, HEAT piles everywhere, HRJ everywhere......well, so bored ):<

[Pendragon]

fuck out of here pendragon

 

 

I'm not the one trying to turn Armored Core into Harry Potter. >

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

the saddest part is it'd prolly be better off being harry potter

 

what an awful series AC is now

[Lygophilia]

They weren't really overcomplicted, just there. The alternative boost mechanic from AC4-ACFA was like a modified quick boost that gave you faster animation with your AC plus energy management, one of the main things to do in order to keep up with the other player that may know how to do it competently in return. Basically, it wasn't something to miss consistently from movement (if it was laggy, then it was for nothing in my experience), because you lose blind spots with your weapons to losing the match, etc. So, yes I do agree with you that the command is a bit repetitive and a poor man's execution aspect from a fighting game in addition to that. Certain members of that community made it out the be alot harder than it really was.

 

Bah, you didn't really miss anything after Last Raven. The older games just set the standard to me. I do miss offline play with a few people that played the ps2 versions.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Lygophilia

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

overcomplicted

 

ssqb is for chootoiz~

[Desert Fox]

So after watching all those old AA vids, I realized ironically even though AA was slower you had to anticipate the opponent half the time or you risked getting pulverized.

 

Especially with dual slot launchers that packed a wallop - one full volley could decide matches. If you tried to rely on reacting to a well placed or well timed missile swarm it often wasn't possible to cycle through to decoys fast enough to matter. (especially true cycling folding cannons) Reacting often meant you ate the volley or a big chunk of it, which would often swing the match. That led into decoy and missile head games, fun times.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

just use a heavy and keep them in your sights as much as possible

 

maybe hop a little

 

weebu