EVE Online - ACU Corporation

[Harakiri Tiger]

Missiles at 650 and 450 DPS and 120km range. Motherfuck.

[Artdeux]

Nah, Precisions go for 63.3 KM, and Furies go for 113.9KM.

 

I also lose a bunch of DPS by not using Kinetic missiles.

 

The most important part of the Tengu is it's "Applicable DPS". It'll be doing almost full damage to anything cruiser sized and above, instead of a battleship doing maybe 50% damage.

[Harakiri Tiger]

Yah, I just call that real DPS over theoretical DPS. Like autocannons and blasters have amazing theoretical DPS, but drones and missiles have much better real DPS.

[Liarbird]

Actually, Tengus are some of the best PvE you can get. 30 million isk ticks (30 million isk every 15 minutes or so) for popping pirates in nullsec if you live there.

[Artdeux]

Our alliance has a foothold in 0.0, but it's -0.0 trusec, so I'm going to wait until we get to where we want to be first and settle in before I do something like that.

 

Gallente ship revealed.

 

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_Ship.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_ship02.jpg

Edited October 28, 2011 by Artdeux

[Liarbird]

noooice.

 

Well, good that you have a foothold. Means you can actually find SOME fights.

 

I don't have much love for sov warfare myself tho.

[Harakiri Tiger]

So, I went through and made a skill plan on EVEmon that gets a new Minmatar pilot into a Hurricane ASAP and a Hurricane fit in EFT for that skill plan. The Hurricane fit is very basic and uses Tech 1/Meta 0 modules, but it's good enough that anyone who finishes the skill plan can help other people mission with ease in just a few short days. It also comes fully fit, meaning it has rigs and drones too.

 

Skill Plan for Fast Hurricane

1. Afterburner I (8 minutes, 20 seconds)

2. Shield Upgrades I (16 minutes, 40 seconds)

3. Missile Launcher Operation I (8 minutes, 20 seconds)

4. Missile Launcher Operation II (38 minutes, 50 seconds)

5. Standard Missiles I (16 minutes, 40 seconds)

6. Weapon Upgrades I (16 minutes, 40 seconds)

7. Weapon Upgrades II (1 hour, 17 minutes, 38 seconds)

8. Minmatar Frigate III (7 hours, 19 minutes, 2 seconds)

9. Minmatar Frigate IV (1 day, 17 hours, 23 minutes, 40 seconds)

10. Minmatar Cruiser I (41 minutes, 40 seconds)

11. Gunnery III (3 hours, 39 minutes, 30 seconds)

12. Medium Projectile Turret I (25 minutes)

13. Drones I (8 minutes, 20 seconds)

14. Scout Drone Operation I (8 minutes, 20 seconds)

15. Minmatar Cruiser II (3 hours, 14 minutes, 4 seconds)

16. Minmatar Cruiser III (18 hours, 17 minutes, 36 seconds)

17. Spaceship Command IV (20 hours, 41 minutes, 50 seconds)

18. Battlecruisers I (50 minutes)

19. Battlecruisers II (3 hours, 52 minutes, 52 seconds)

20. Mechanic III (3 hours, 39 minutes, 30 seconds)

21. Jury Rigging I (16 minutes, 40 seconds)

22. Jury Rigging II (1 hour, 17 minutes, 38 seconds)

23. Jury Rigging III (7 hours, 19 minutes, 2 seconds)

24. Shield Rigging I (25 minutes)

 

Total time: 4 days, 20 hours, 42 minutes, 52 seconds

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Hurricane, Starter Hurricane]

 

Gyrostabilizer I

Gyrostabilizer I

Gyrostabilizer I

Tracking Enhancer I

Tracking Enhancer I

Tracking Enhancer I

 

10MN Afterburner I

Large Shield Extender I

Large Shield Extender I

Large Shield Extender I

 

425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M

425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M

425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M

425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M

425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M

425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M

Assault Missile Launcher I, Flameburst Light Missile

Assault Missile Launcher I, Flameburst Light Missile

 

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

 

Warrior I x5

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

id rather fly around in a beefy rifter than a bare minimum hurricane

[Liarbird]

well, I guess its time for me to take what I've learned, and dive into being combat fleet commander.

 

Should help a bit

[Artdeux]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/SliVeROVeRloRD/Legion-Missions.jpg

 

Posting because Niji said B might be interested in this.

[Liarbird]

Why would you cover a Legion in HAMs?

 

Pulse lasers or beam lasers I'd rather pull, or are you going for something with minimal cap use for the armour tanking.

[Harakiri Tiger]

A beefy Rifter isn't going to do much in L3/L4 missions. Especially not on four days and twenty hours of skills. Just training Minmatar Frigate V (9 days) or Small Projectile Turret V (6 days) would take up all that time plus some. You could always focus on just getting a bare minimum Rifter fit and then working on low cost support skills, but that won't take you very far either. Making Rifters work in missions takes more work than making bigger ships work takes, haha.

 

As an example, Chode was using a 7x 200mm AC fit Thrasher with a Gyro and a Rocket Launcher and a Webifier while in perfect range orbit on a Caldari cruiser in an L2 mission and couldn't break its shield tank. I was tanking for him in my Proteus and had my own Webifier on it, so it was double webbed to boot. He got it to about 50% shield health and then its shields just stopped going down. Pretty good, haha. Being in a Rifter would net him even less overall DPS.

 

For PvP a Rifter is great, but not so much for PvE.

[Artdeux]

Why would you cover a Legion in HAMs?

 

Pulse lasers or beam lasers I'd rather pull, or are you going for something with minimal cap use for the armour tanking.

Switchable damage type ammo, and the ability to speed tank something at 5KM without losing any DPS due to optimal.

 

Though the Pulse Legion would work better with Faction and T2 ammo, I am unsure if it's actually worth doing a laser Legion or not. Last I remember, it wasn't worth making one. Did they rebalance its offensive laser subsystem?

 

Here's some charts against Serpentis Rats (Which I would be fighting on the character), with appropriate resistances.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/SliVeROVeRloRD/Serpentis01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/SliVeROVeRloRD/Serpentis02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/SliVeROVeRloRD/Serpentis03.jpg

Green, Red and Yellow are the HAM Legion VS the Cruiser, Battleship, and Frigate target.

 

[Legion, Missions HAM]

Ballistic Control System II

Ballistic Control System II

Armor Kinetic Hardener II

Armor Kinetic Hardener II

Armor Thermic Hardener II

Medium Armor Repairer II

 

10MN Afterburner II

Cap Recharger II

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Target Painter II

 

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile

 

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

 

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector

Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network

Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization

Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

 

 

 

Blue, Teal and Purple are the Laser Legion VS the Battleship, the Cruiser and the Frigate target. The Laser Legion has Scorch. You're going to have to trust me when I say Multifrequency doesn't look much better unless both the target and I are standing still.

 

[Legion, Missions Laser]

Heat Sink II

Heat Sink II

Armor Kinetic Hardener II

Armor Kinetic Hardener II

Armor Thermic Hardener II

Medium Armor Repairer II

 

10MN Afterburner II

Cap Recharger II

Cap Recharger II

Tracking Computer II

 

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M

 

Medium Energy Burst Aerator I

Medium Energy Burst Aerator I

 

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector

Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network

Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers

Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

 

 

the HAM Legion has a Web, but I turned that off for this test. Pretty much no velocity change on the target except on frigates will change its damage. My preferred range with the HAM legion would be about a 5-10KM orbit.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Artdeux

[Fukei]

I have an equipped Stabber now, so I'm ready for L2 later tonight. Maybe I can support in L3, too! I should have BC skills within a couple of days, it won't be too long a wait for me now that I can actually do things.

[Harakiri Tiger]

I decided to login to the forum early today just so I could mention that I probably won't be here till midnight central time, since I have to help people move booths around and ship them around the state.

 

=

 

You''ll be fine doing L2s, though. Just keep range and don't charge the enemy ships down. Let them fly into your AC range for the most part. Remember you can double click space in a specific direction to make your ship head that way. Manual piloting, werd.

[Artdeux]

Devvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvblog.

 

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3012

 

Not much that we didn't already know.

Hybrid Turrets

Reduce CPU usage:

 

XL Turrets: -5 CPU

L Turrets: -3 CPU

M Turrets: -2 CPU

S Turrets: -1 CPU

** Exception: 75mm Railguns (they already have very low CPU requirements.)

 

Reduce Powergrid usage:

 

All hybrid turrets: -12% Powergrid usage. Rounded to nearest whole number.

** Exceptions: Light Electron Blasters, Light Ion Blasters, 125mm Railguns, 75mm Railguns (they already have very low Powergrid requirements.)

 

Reduced Capacitor usage:

 

All hybrid turrets: -30% capacitor use

Tracking Speed Increase:

 

All blaster turrets: +20% to Tracking speed

** Exception: XL turrets (they already have good tracking when compared to other XL turrets)

 

Railguns

 

Damage Increase:

 

All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier

** Exception: XL turrets (they already have good damage when compared to other XL turrets)

 

Hybrid turret ships

 

While I am hesitant to boost individual ships right now, I do think that a small speed boost to hybrid turret ships in general is needed. You will notice that a few hybrid turret ships are not mentioned here. The ones that are not listed are either fast enough already or they have range bonuses to hybrid turrets, which means that they are meant for longer range combat and as such should not need a velocity boost as much as other hybrid turret ships.

 

Max Velocity +10 on the following ships:

 

Arazu, Astarte, Brutix, Catalyst, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Enyo, Eos, Falcon, Guardian-Vexor, Helios, Incursus, Ishtar, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant

 

Max Velocity +5 on the following ships:

Cormorant, Federation Navy Comet, Hyperion, Kronos, Sin, Vindicator

 

 

Inertia Modifier -5% on the following ships:

 

Adrestia, Arazu, Ares, Astarte, Atron, Brutix, Catalyst, Celestis, Cormorant, Daredevil, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Eagle, Enyo, Eos, Eris, Exequror Navy Issue, Falcon, Federation Navy Comet, Ferox, Guardian-Vexor, Harpy, Helios, Hyperion, Incursus, Ishkur, Ishtar, Kronos, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Merlin, Moa, Phobos, Raptor, Rokh, Sin, Taranis, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant, Vindicator, Vulture

 

Tech II Ammo

 

I did some comparison between the tech II ammo types and found that one hybrid ammo type did indeed need some work. I also found that the other turret types had some very underwhelming ammo. Rather than limit myself to only boosting the hybrid ammo, I will also be making some changes to other tech II ammo types. Javelin is quite obviously underpowered. The correlating laser and projectile ammo, Gleam and Quake, are equally underwhelming and they all need some change. Additionally, Hail sticks out as terribly underpowered.

 

Javelin (all sizes): Removed cap penalty

Javelin, Gleam and Quake (all sizes): Removed tracking speed penalty, added 25% tracking speed bonus

Hail (all sizes): Removed falloff penalty

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

why would they buff the guardian-vexor

[Liarbird]

they buffed every single gallante ship.

 

Well looks like I should lo9ok into training Gallante, oho

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

ive already lo9oked into it and im happy my ships wont be so crappy anymore

[Harakiri Tiger]

This still won't make blaster boats amazing, though. I've been EFT warrioring to hell with the new stats and setups and it's definitely a nice buff, but not enough to make Gallente feel like Gallente should feel, nor enough to make them really any more viable in PvP. There still isn't much reason to use a Gallente ship over a Minmatar ship, and I don't mean in the kiting sort of Minmatar fashion but rather in the very suicidal fashion of the Gallente. They just don't excel at what they do and everyone is trying to make them do what Minmatar ships do, which isn't what Gallente ships do. You're safer and have a higher chance of success playing a suicidal charge in and ram your turrets up the opponents butt style with Minmatar than with Gallente ships right now too. With the patch stats it does get a bit easier to charge people down and hit and Gallente have an easier time fitting Neutrons, but that seems to negate the option for Electron/Ion turrets and ship fitting variety more than fix what was wrong with blasters.

 

I've honestly come down to seeing it as Gallente ships need MWD speed, blaster damage, blaster tracking, and drones. That's about it. An ideal Gallente blaster ship would have a very fast MWD, very high damage blasters, very high tracking, and five medium drones. The Thorax has a good chance of filling this role as it already attempts to ascribe to those concepts. It really feels like a representative ship for the Gallente. If you ask me, it would be better to buff Gallente ships like the Thorax with a +4% MWD speed per level bonus instead of a MWD cap bonus like it has and then just up base damage and tracking by 20% on all blasters and railguns. The drones portion is already fine on the Thorax if you ask me. We don't actually need the CPU/PG/Capacitor/Speed/Agility buffs. Just damage, tracking, and MWD speed.

 

Gallente should use MWDs, it's a racial concept preference. We're anti-AB and pro-MWD. Gallente burn up their cap to kill people fast, I think they should focus on that. You should be terrified of a Gallente ship getting in close range because of the stacked blaster+drone damage that would result. Their weakness should be that their ridiculous damage can be neuted or outranged. Also, if you buff ship agility too much and then were to buff MWDs on Gallente ships you'd just create a new scenario of ships that kite in a retarded fashion, so it's best to keep Gallente ship agility low. I don't want range buffs on Gallente ships either as that would just make them ACs with a different skin/model. I want to be able to use Void ammo. I want blasters, even if it means they'll suck practically due to kiters. If I kill someone or something with blasters, it should at least give me the gratification of killing them with blasters. If I want to use ACs I'll fly Minmatar ships.

 

I'm also happy to see that they're looking at rebalancing ammo.

 

All Hybrid Turrets

-------------------------

Reduced CPU Usage:

• XL Turrets: -5 CPU
  
• L Turrets: -3 CPU
  
• M Turrets: -2 CPU
  
• S Turrets: -1 CPU
  
• Exceptions: 75mm Railguns (They already have very low CPU requirements.)
  

Reduced Powergrid Usage:

• All Hybrid Turrets: -12% Powergrid Usage
  
• Exceptions: Light Electron Blasters, Light Ion Blasters, 125mm Railguns, 75mm Railguns (They already have very low Powergrid requirements.)
  

Reduced Capacitor Usage:

• All Hybrid Turrets: -30% Capacitor Use
  

 

Blasters

-------------------------

Tracking Speed Increased:

• All Blaster Turrets: +20% to Tracking Speed
  
• Exceptions: XL Turrets (They already have good tracking when compared to other XL turrets.)
  

 

Railguns

-------------------------

Damage Increased:

• All Railgun Turrets: +10% to Damage Modifier
  
• Exceptions: XL Turrets (They already have good damage when compared to other XL turrets.)
  

 

Hybrid Weapon Ships (Including non-Gallente)

-------------------------

Max Velocity +10 m/s on the Following Ships:

• Arazu, Astarte, Brutix, Catalyst, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Enyo, Eos, Falcon, Guardian-Vexor, Helios, Incursus, Ishtar, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant
  

Max Velocity +5 m/s on the Following Ships:

• Cormorant, Federation Navy Comet, Hyperion, Kronos, Sin, Vindicator
  

Inertia Modifier -5% on the Following Ships:

• Adrestia, Arazu, Ares, Astarte, Atron, Brutix, Catalyst, Celestis, Cormorant, Daredevil, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Eagle, Enyo, Eos, Eris, Exequror Navy Issue, Falcon, Federation Navy Comet, Ferox, Guardian-Vexor, Harpy, Helios, Hyperion, Incursus, Ishkur, Ishtar, Kronos, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Merlin, Moa, Phobos, Raptor, Rokh, Sin, Taranis, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant, Vindicator, Vulture
  

 

Tech II Ammo (All Sizes)

-------------------------

• Javelin: Removed Cap Penalty
  
• Javelin, Gleam and Quake: Removed Tracking Speed Penalty, Added 25% Tracking Speed Bonus
  
• Hail: Removed Falloff Penalty
  

 

Btw, it is an agility buff. It turns out the data leak was fucked up and that the agility mods you see are incorrect in it. Leak accidentally added +5% Inertia Modifier (less agile) instead of using the -5% Inertia Modifier (more agile). This means the agility stats you see for the ships in the leaked file are wrong. To find out your ships actual agility you'll need to take the current base Inertia Modifier and multiply it by 0.95.

 

 

 

This is my current generic PvP Thorax build. No patch buffs or theoretical buffs applied. Feel free to compare and contrast with buffs.

 

http://revolution.armoredcoreuniverse.net/EVE/Fittings/PvP%20%5bSupport%5d%20-%20Thorax%20(DPS).jpg

 

[Artdeux]

The issue with simply buffing guns, is that people with other race's ships will start using the guns over their own racial guns.

 

It happened a while back. Amarr used to use Artillery. Pretty much every ship without an explicit weapon bonus will start using a different race's guns, like the Myrmidon using Autocannons.

[Harakiri Tiger]

Medium blasters with +20% damage and tracking would still be worse than ACs at everything outside of 5km range. Large blasters would be just as bad at everything outside of 10km range and small blasters would be the only ones that would really be a preferable weapon type over others on non-Gallente ships. Even then they would come with unchangeable ammo damage types, capacitor drain, and higher equip requirements than ACs.

 

When it comes to missmatching ships and weapons I think that realm mostly belongs to the Minmatar weaponry due to its overall concept and general equip stats. I would never put lasers on my Myrmidon and missiles are limited per ship due to missile slots, but using projectile turrets makes sense since they drain nothing, can change ammo type, and have lower equip requirements, as well as viably working at different ranges even if they might not excel at them.

 

I'm not sure which ships would either equip or be able to equip blasters/rails that had +20% damage and tracking that aren't designed for it. Especially since I wouldn't incorporate that CPU/PG/Capacitor buff. Even though I don't think the CPU/PG/Capacitor buff and the +20% to damage and tracking buff would be enough to make a Myrm use blasters/rails over autocannons/artillery. It would probably finally make them a serious option in comparison to the autocannons/artillery, but I don't think it would supersede them. A shield Myrm would definitely still use ACs, for example. The worst part is that the Myrmidon is a Gallente ship.

 

Like I said earlier, the only really apparent place where people might want to use blasters/rails would be in the small guns department on frigates that don't get weapon bonuses to their ships. Even then it would be questionable if they could fit them or afford the capacitor drain to use them. I'm thinking the Amarr frigates might have the best chance of using small railguns or small blasters in place of autocannons/artillery, but that's it. One other case where this might make a serious difference is in railguns, to be honest. Giving them bonus tracking and another 10% damage increase might actually really help them become viable. They certainly aren't used much by anyone seriously missioning unless that person is Gallente, crazy, or just bored. I think like the Rokh is the only ship that might be remotely viable for railguns right now, the rest are just people who use them because they have to. It's not like someone missioning with a Mega/Hype/Dominix has a choice of whether they're going to use rails or blasters for the mission. As it is now, I'm starting to wonder if using artillery on my Megathron might be a better idea than using railguns. The ship bonuses are the only thing that might prevent that (and the incoming patch, but I'm talking right now stats). I've actually seen Dominixes using autocannons.

 

I should totally join EVE forums and rant like this, haha. I'll probably summarize all this and PM/post it on the main EVE topics anyway. It's worth getting my opinion out I feel.

 

Anyway, I'm probably gonna rant a bit later on too. Like tomorrow, since I've been doing random comparisons and stuff between ships. I think in general there are just a bunch of ships and guns that just don't excel at anything, which is terrible. They're all over the place, including some Minmatar ships. I'm still trying to work out what the hell the reasoning behind removing the falloff penalty on Hail ammo was, though. That one is just mindblowing. I've been matching a Thorax with Void and Rupture with Hail for the past like 5 hours (with all the incoming buffs, a +25%/+25% damage/tracking buff, the 4% MWD buff I suggested, and a Void ammo buff I didn't mention) and the Thorax basically breaks even until it gets the MWD buff. Then it wins basically every time. Then the Rupture gets the new Hail ammo in which it once again wins in a 1v1, but only like 60% of the time. They at least break roughly even in a fleet fight, though. I'd honestly be fine leaving it like that.

 

All the buffs do make it sound insane, though, yah. They'll always be really speculative since it would take a large userbase of people dedicated to testing them to really get solid numbers that don't allow crazy loopholes.

[Artdeux]

I should totally join EVE forums and rant like this, haha. I'll probably summarize all this and PM/post it on the main EVE topics anyway. It's worth getting my opinion out I feel.

You'd just be repeating what hundreds of people already say.

[Liarbird]

^ Pretty much this.

 

 

auauauugh. finding time to play EVE is like pulling teeth.

Edited November 2, 2011 by ^Slaanesh

[Fukei]

So, Niji. I stopped being a "chicken" and tried to solo an L3. I was warped into a gigantic group of frigates and two cruisers that immediately webbed and scrambled me, then got too close to hit with ACs. A few minutes later, I then flew back to Fricoure in a Reaper. With one unit of free Tritanium in the cargo, because the insurance company are nice people.

 

Now I have no ship, I'm broke (Didn't insure the Hurricane), have no way of making decent money and need even MORE donations if I want to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time. DMX was actually right about something for once, I'm probably going to ragequit this game pretty quickly.

 

Bawk bawk bawk.