EVE Online - ACU Corporation

[Liarbird]

fuck yes frigswarm

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

omfg fuuuuuck meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

i planned out my skill schedule so that i would be able to set new skills on 6-21

GUESS WHAT

IM BLIND AND DIDNT SEE THAT INCARNIA WAS COMING JUNE 21

 

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

 

now i lose a day or 2 on skills DD:

[Harakiri Tiger]

HOW DID YOU MISS IT WAS COMING OUT ON THE 21ST? THEY SAID IT IN BIG WRITING EVERY TIME YOU LOGIN.

 

Server should be back up pretty soon if it's not already up, noob. They're not doing fullsize expansions at once anymore like they used to. They do incremental updates now, only doing pieces and parts of the expansion at a time. They started with Incursion like this. It's supposed to prevent long ass downtimes and millions of expansion bugs, but it didn't go over too well with Incursion! Haha.

 

 

 

EDIT: Just keep EVEmon running in the background and it'll tell you when server is up.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

24 days until ishtar omg wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Harakiri Tiger]

You're training Cruiser 5 finally, huh?

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

yup

then i need spaceboat 5 and assault ships 4

[Falco]

gallente battleship 5 son

[Magnus]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp

 

http://i53.tinypic.com/2q0orjd.png

 

It seems extreme overpricing of cash shop items is becoming a trend among MMOs. A virtual shirt that costs more than a real one.

 

Amazing, really.

[SUMERIAN BLOOD GOD]

If people want to spend cash on vanity items then I'm cool with it. Being able to buy useful items directly is a little whack, though. Buying/Selling PLEX is ok since that entire practice is what lets some people play for free and it's always a case of two players benefiting from another.

 

 

Those Jita riots are pretty to look at.

[Harakiri Tiger]

I think this entire thing is a dope comedic scene.

 

There are more important things to worry about concerning EVE, especially in the performance related issues and game bugs field, but a pricey monocle and pretend clothes along with the potential chance that we may be able to buy a Megathron in the future with cash without having to pay for the Russian botters to build it for us first is more important to some people. This is after EVE players have willingly encouraged and provided a solid basis of data over the years showing they'd probably be some of the most willing people in MMO games to actually buy stuff this way anyway.

 

I mean, just check PLEX sales. PLEX are sold 100% only so that players can make money the easy way because they want items without having to work for them. That's proof that there is a large fountain of users who are perfectly willing to pay for items in the EVE world. In the end, every PLEX that is sold on the market is sold to get someone easy ISK with real money. Every sold PLEX is proof to the CEOs of CCP that they should be absolutely adding microtransactions to the game, because they have a playerbase that wants that. Proveably so, because the PLEX market not only exists, but that it is literally absolutely thriving. PLEX prices fluctuate beautifully.

 

The best part of this whole thing is that it really only lit up when a 13 page internal newsletter written for debate purposes within the company concerning all three of its IPs was leaked to the general public that was lacking reading comprehension skills. It's a internal document for a business, expecting it to be written any other way is ludicrous. On top of which, the demonization of some of the people who wrote articles in the newsletter is even worse.

 

In response to this newsletter being leaked, some of the hardcore community of EVE players is now taking its anger out on the other players of the game. Suicide ganking random people, clogging up key servers to prevent people from being able to play easily, threatening and war declaring corporations of players who do not side with them, kicking people out of their corporations if they own any vanity items, and some have even mentioned that they're trying to actively hunt down the alternate accounts of the game developers. Yes, that's right folks. You heard me. They are kicking some people out of their corporations because those people spent their own real money (likely that they worked for) in a way they desired. They're actively attempting to make it worse than it already is for everyone else. They're mad at CCP, so they take it out on the players.

 

There are legitimate things to complain about and legitimate ways to do it. I don't think the way some of these players have gone about it is that way. Much like I didn't agree with LulzSec's methods, I do not agree with these. Whether their goals are geniune or not, their methods are poor. I don't like CCP pricing a completely useless vanity item (monocle) at roughly $75 US, but neither do I think it's wrong, evil, or destructive.

[Artdeux]

I mean, just check PLEX sales. PLEX are sold 100% only so that players can make money the easy way because they want items without having to work for them. That's proof that there is a large fountain of users who are perfectly willing to pay for items in the EVE world. In the end, every PLEX that is sold on the market is sold to get someone easy ISK with real money. Every sold PLEX is proof to the CEOs of CCP that they should be absolutely adding microtransactions to the game, because they have a playerbase that wants that. Proveably so, because the PLEX market not only exists, but that it is literally absolutely thriving. PLEX prices fluctuate beautifully.

PLEX is acceptable because it trades game time for ISK, providing many people with a way to play their game. And because someone has to buy the PLEX in the first place, no money is lost on CCPs end. I've heard they used to be 75 million, but demand caused by things like Macro Miners/Missioners bumped them way the hell up.

_______________________________

 

Microtransactions, unlike using the PLEX to obtain items, completely remove any player-player interaction when it comes to items.

 

In the PLEX -> ISK -> Item market, it goes

Player A buys a GTC from one of the CCP affiliate stores

Player A converts the GTC into PLEXes for selling, then list them on the market

Player B has been saving up ISK, which could have been obtained in countless ways (Missioning, Market Speculation, Pirating, Collecting Corp Tax, Spoils of War such as ships POSes and modules, Mining, Industry, Bounties) And wants to extend his play time using what he earned

Player B buys a PLEX with his ISK, and puts it into his account

Player B then goes back to what he was doing to make ISK before for the next month

Player A receives ISK, and goes to buy one of those shiny ships he was looking at

Player A buys a T1 ship, which was created using the process of: Mining -> Refining Ore -> Selling Refined Materials to speculators on the market -> Ship Builder buys minerals from speculators who receive a small profit for speculating -> Ship is built at a Station or POS (If it's a POS, god help me I am not going to make this longer) -> ship is put back on the market where speculators are allowed to resell it for another small profit -> Finally, Player A buys the Ship, which could have been weeks in the making.

 

Depending on what Player B was doing, he could have put some time into making that ship, however indirectly, that player A just bought. This completes the circle.

 

In the PLEX -> Aurum market, it goes

Player A buys a GTC from one of the CCP affiliate stores, or a PLEX on the market

Player A converts the GTC into PLEXes, then PLEXes into Aurum

Monocle is poofed into existance.

????

Dead end

 

Player A gets wardecked and podkilled over and over for spending $80 on a freaking monocle.

 

 

EVE's Economy is much different than a F2P game, if Aurum becomes Pay to Win, it will destroy much of EVE's reason for existing.

________________________________

 

The CEO of the Russian Alliance, Red Federation, is an oil tycoon, and has spend $100,000 on the game before through PLEX to get his alliance started.

 

What would happen if CCP introduced weapons or ammo that was twice as good as regular equiptment? Maybe 3 times better? Would we all have to start putting in obscene amounts of real cash to even compete with people who can put $100,000 into a game?

 

That is one thing people were worried about.

_______________________________

 

 

More importantly than all of this, is that CCP said that they would never introduce microtransactions to their game about a year ago. This lie to the playerbase has shattered a lot of people's trust in CCP.

 

Quite a few of the "Pillars of the Community" have left due to this, which makes me wonder what will happen as EVE is a game built on Reputation. Goonswarm is looking at leaving now too.

_______________________________

 

Another thing to note, an employee would have had to leak those internal documents in the first place for us to even know about this. This makes me wonder, How disgruntled is this employee?

[Liarbird]

^ This is true. No-one has problems with PLEXing. due to the fact that it still helps the player economy in essence.

 

Aurum can prove to be problematic.

[Magnus]

And I was laughed at when I said people felt cheated by the developer.

 

http://i52.tinypic.com/v7vxts.jpg

[Falco]

It's not like this will affect much unless CCP releases some kind of super buff that can only be bought with aur, then isk will be raped up the ass.

 

Srsly you people should go to Jita and turn on local, or even Dodixie, hell even people in Fricoure are whining about it.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp

 

ahahahah theyre stasis webbing a statue

[Falco]

Even when blowing up a statue there are scammers everywhere.

[Liarbird]

>Turn on Local

 

Son, if you do not have local on 24/7 you will not live long in EVE.

 

That is a fact.

[Falco]

are you flying on low sec

[Liarbird]

Lowsec and 0.0 are my home. and my corp is constantly wardecced.

 

So: Local is always open.

[renketsu0]

The CEO of the Russian Alliance, Red Federation, is an oil tycoon, and has spend $100,000 on the game before through PLEX to get his alliance started.

 

What would happen if CCP introduced weapons or ammo that was twice as good as regular equiptment? Maybe 3 times better? Would we all have to start putting in obscene amounts of real cash to even compete with people who can put $100,000 into a game?

 

That is one thing people were worried about.

 

Except we already can't compete with the guys who spend $100,000 on the game. I'm all for vanity items, though not at the price they're at right now. I wouldn't even have too much of a problem if EVE introduced better equipment for money, so long as they are transferable. If they aren't transferable, meaning there's no way a player who didn't pay extra can get one, then I'd be upset. But I think it's unlikely that they'll do something like that.

[Falco]

if they were transferable eve would become a korean mmo and isk market would explode, so no

 

jita has a cool light show people, get to it

[Artdeux]

Except we already can't compete with the guys who spend $100,000 on the game. I'm all for vanity items, though not at the price they're at right now. I wouldn't even have too much of a problem if EVE introduced better equipment for money, so long as they are transferable. If they aren't transferable, meaning there's no way a player who didn't pay extra can get one, then I'd be upset. But I think it's unlikely that they'll do something like that.

We can. Why do you think Red Alliance hasn't taken over the whole of 0.0?

 

The ISK that he get can only pay for ships and modules that are about equal to what everyone else can get. Officer and Faction modules are limited by the fact there are only so many of them in the game, and they are much too expensive for the bonus they give. If you can pay CCP to poof Officer-like modules in the game for you, then you bypass this limit. There is no "Force Multiplier" the Red Alliance leader can give his alliance right now to make his fleets more effective than what everyone else can put together.

 

Here's a neat trend.

 

jita has a cool light show people, get to it

Laser Lightshow! Good thing they never run out of ammo.

[renketsu0]

We can. Why do you think Red Alliance hasn't taken over the whole of 0.0?

 

Because the number of people not in Red Alliance far outnumber them. I don't think you got my point. It's not that we as a whole can't compete with someone who spent $100,000 on the game, but one-on-one they will outlast you assuming both of you have the same number of people and the same skill.

 

The ISK that he get can only pay for ships and modules that are about equal to what everyone else can get. Officer and Faction modules are limited by the fact there are only so many of them in the game, and they are much too expensive for the bonus they give. If you can pay CCP to poof Officer-like modules in the game for you, then you bypass this limit. There is no "Force Multiplier" the Red Alliance leader can give his alliance right now to make his fleets more effective than what everyone else can put together.

Indeed. Even though it's a topic of economics this still applies here. Productivity is a function of labor, capital, and technology. Increasing only labor yields diminishing returns because capital is needed to sustain the labor. Increasing only capital yields diminishing returns because labor is needed to use the capital. Technology is described as "anything that can increase output for the same amount of input." Better ships and modules would be an example of technology. If he could increase his tech bonus by an unlimited amount he could rule the world. The thing is he can't because his tech bonus has a maximum. That maximum is the number of people he has (and thus ships in a fleet) and the number of slots on their ships that can benefit. Remember the definition "increase output for the same amount of input." Tech bonus is cool, but it doesn't address input. 300 dudes with 1.5 strength isn't going to outperform 10000 with normal strength. This is NOT Sparta. At the end of the day labor is by far the most important variable of productivity, period.

 

Also I didn't see you address how other people who don't pay aren't going to get their hands on these items through in-game money. Especially not since PLEX works the same way. So long as other people can obtain the same ships and modules with in-game money, there shouldn't be a problem because he won't be the only guy with them.

[Artdeux]

Because the number of people not in Red Alliance far outnumber them. I don't think you got my point. It's not that we as a whole can't compete with someone who spent $100,000 on the game, but one-on-one they will outlast you assuming both of you have the same number of people and the same skill.

You shouldn't have pluralized "we already can't compete with the guys" then.

 

There's only so much ISK you can actually put into a single ship before the next meta level of items don't exist. I could face him one on one with a billion ISK noob ship, and much of his $100,000 goes away.

 

In groups containing the same amount of people with the same skill with no ship advantages (IE not using Railboats against HACs), yes, the team with more ISK invested into their modules will win. As far as I've heard, much of 0.0 has become Capital Ship Fleet Fights only. Slaanesh will be able to confirm or deny this.

 

My issue comes with "Pay to Win" items where the only way to obtain them involves CCP getting money in $20 intervals, which is a closed loop in EVE.

 

Also I didn't see you address how other people who don't pay aren't going to get their hands on these items through in-game money. Especially not since PLEX works the same way. So long as other people can obtain the same ships and modules with in-game money, there shouldn't be a problem because he won't be the only guy with them.

If PLEX->Aurum become Pay to Win, there is absolutely no way they will stay around 400 million ISK per PLEX. It would skyrocket. People wouldn't be able to afford the Pay to Win items either way.

 

You'd also have many people, who only play due to PLEX, leaving because they can't afford a 1 billion PLEX per month for each account they may have.

 

Truth be told, I feel that we're debating on a shaky platform here:

 

I do not like the PLEX -> Aurum method because it is a closed loop system in a market sense. It would also cause PLEX prices to skyrocket which would make many people unable to play, which could further screw up how we play the game due to cascading effects of having key people leave the game.

 

CCP has somewhat half-confirmed that they won't sell "Gold Ammo", whatever that means, which alleviates some of my fears. A lot of key community people have suspended their accounts for the time being, and if they don't come back, it makes me sad that much of EVE's character has left.

 

On another note, there are some crazy GM ships in game. You'd need to deal 6,250,000 raw damage in less than 1 second to just break his shields, then 11,249,999 more damage to actually kill it. About 20 Titan's DDDing at once could possibly do it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/SliVeROVeRloRD/20110625045210.jpg

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

30m sig rad + 2500m/s

 

i would think that the targeting range would be much farther tho