Armored Core 5 Discussion

[Griffon]

I think there will be more of an 'Arena' online mode if that is the case. It'll be a lobby like most fighting games where people can line up to fight each other, like in the tournaments described above. Of course, what I'm saying isn't the actual idea at all, just thinking what might crop up.

You mean like Street Fighter? IDK about that, I mean that could be, but I don't see it straying too far from AC4s lobby system, except for hopefully easier access to your garage without having to exit and go to SP just to change something.

 

Also...what happened to all the AC5 pics? they up and vanish because...something went screwy with the watermark?

Yep.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

1v1 will exist, but will it be of any significance toward unlocking parts? There is still the likely possibility that parts will be unlocked through the multiplayer (I'm thinking of the + parts, specifically), and unless the 1v1 will also contribute toward unlocking parts, I can guarantee you that 1-on-1 matches will be nothing more than a novelty.

 

I'm not sure how that's a problem?

 

Let's be honest, unless AC fans have changed dramatically over the last 3 or so years since I stopped playing, they're generally egomaniacs who think they're some kind of unique and special snowflake, and wanting to prove their as good as whatever anime hero they live up to. They always want to go 1v1 to prove they are the greatest pilot in history. It's one of the biggest reasons getting team tournaments into the mainstream was so hard, back in the day.

 

I don't see how it being a novelty matters. If the option to have 1v1 is there, it's going to get used, heavily. AC players are fags.

[Exorcet]

I don't care what From says. 1 v 1 is the core of AC5. Team play is a side mode that I'll enjoy when I don't feel like playing 1 v 1.

 

Unlocking parts via online sounds utterly dumb. Everyone should have everything and be separated by how well they play only. At least with offline, terrible AI made getting things easy. If AC5 turns into "get the best parts" I want nothing to do with it until there is a save file.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Would you say 1v1 put the core in Armored Core??

 

Wah wah waaaahhh

 

[Harakiri Tiger]

With team based PvP featured in the ACV I see a HUGE amount of people playing that over 1v1 PvP. 1v1 is destined to become a novelty for normal players for sure. That's not even arguable, haha. Just look at how incredibly popular Battle Royales were in 4/fA among the regular players. It was far, far more played in that fashion than in 1v1's.

 

Also, this game isn't going to be balanced for 1v1, no matter what anyone thinks. 1v1 balance requires a high degree of fine-tuning to balance properly. Team play doesn't. Team play allows for a more blurry balance line in which you only need to smack really truly imbalanced things around. Anything that's seriously broken will likely be fixed quickly, but besides that you'll probably see a bunch of stuff that kills variety in 1v1 because it was designed to be part of a team setting. I would be surprised if we don't have to develop banlists for 1v1 and 2v2 play for tournaments.

 

Having a dedicated 1v1 mode is great for fansites who like to run tournaments, though. Especially if it's geared to allow for spectators and such. I mostly want an effective PvP mode (non-territories) with good spectating features.

[Dragon Angel Knight]

Let's be honest, unless AC fans have changed dramatically over the last 3 or so years since I stopped playing, they're generally egomaniacs who think they're some kind of unique and special snowflake, and wanting to prove their as good as whatever anime hero they live up to. They always want to go 1v1 to prove they are the greatest pilot in history. It's one of the biggest reasons getting team tournaments into the mainstream was so hard, back in the day.

 

That's when the better pilots show up and shut the wannabe's up, plain and simple. And personally, I'd enjoy getting into a team v team match, I think it'd be fun. Not all AC players are egotistical, either... Just the majority who think that having the best parts for the AC type automatically makes them like Heero Yuy or Setsuna F. Seiei.

 

I don't care what From says. 1 v 1 is the core of AC5. Team play is a side mode that I'll enjoy when I don't feel like playing 1 v 1.

 

Unlocking parts via online sounds utterly dumb. Everyone should have everything and be separated by how well they play only. At least with offline, terrible AI made getting things easy. If AC5 turns into "get the best parts" I want nothing to do with it until there is a save file.

And I agree with this... It's definitely not fun if it's a race to see who has the best parts...

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

I said generally, Dragon.

 

Also, this game isn't going to be balanced for 1v1, no matter what anyone thinks.

 

So true!

[█␢█]

I don't see how it being a novelty matters. If the option to have 1v1 is there, it's going to get used, heavily. AC players are fags.

Okay fair enough. It just seemed (or perhaps still seems) like people were making a bigger deal out of 1v1 than I figured the game will.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

But that's okay dood, cuz you got me and I got you. And we got each other. And ACU. And presumably a bunch of egomaniacs all waiting to get their shit pushed in.

[█␢█]

Go pack some fudge with the 08-DEUS, huh.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

i like to pack my own fudge

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

[Griffon]

I love how so many people were "I don't see 1v1 on there, this game is gonna be shit and I won't play if they leave it out."

Now that it's confirmed, "Everyone's gonna be in Territory matches, the people who play 1v1 are just showing off anyway."

[█␢█]

This is just through preliminary scanning, but so far, that isn't the case. Everyone's pretty much kept to their same opinions with the majority being in favor (or at least interested) in team play. I'll edit in more as I go along to make sure.

 

Spoiler! --Click Here to View!--

Of all the games to get this right, I can't believe that it might be Armored Core. If it's true though, From might be able to make up for FA.

 

However, not having 1 v 1 sounds like garbage.

Sorta looks like Skull in the other hand too.

 

If this game really is gonna have a strong team-battling element to it, I might have to jump back into the saddle and ruin some lives.

I gotta say, the idea of battling as a team in AC, especially a big team, is something I'm totally looking forward to. I hope it all works out!

What I am against is doing away with 1 v 1 fighting.

All in all, I'm looking forward to this game... and it will pretty much replace every other game for me. Unless 1v1s are completely done away with, in which case I probably won't play it as much as I would have otherwise.

Hahah, don't tell me you're not looking forward to the whole conquer other people's territories in ACV?

 

Of course the biggest problem so far imo is making/join a squad/team/clan. You all know what happens after a guild lasts a good amount of time ( cough initiation tests/yadayadayada )

 

Then of course there'll be a time when people will start going "MAKE PEACE NOT WAR" and every territory remains the same for monthes and probably years because clans form pacts/alliances.

I don't see a lot of clans forming up with AC's limited fanbase. The ones that do, I don't see them being that influential.

And operating operations? Sounds lamely intense. That's all I'd want to do.

The Operator Mode and Scan Mode UIs both look sexy as fuck.

we have operators in the game? YES! I'm such a support whore, I'd totally get into that role!

 

A scan mode too? Scouting role? Hell yes!!!

 

I'm friggin HYPE now!!

How is working in a team any less skill-based than 1v1 combat? And since when was skill the only thing that mattered in 1v1? What is your definition of skill, anyway? I think we're seeing things differently.

 

I can't think of a single AC game where skill was the only factor in 1v1 play.

My point was basically you don't have to worry about teammates and AI getting in the way all you have to rely on is your design and skill. I prefer it like that.

 

Not saying I wouldn't play the awesome team game that they came up with here.

70 missions that have the potential to be an hour long? Not even an A class rpg has a story that long. Detailed online play to boot? Sounds good so far.

so no offline play. theyre going warhawk on this shit

i dont know if i like that if they arent gonna do 1v1 stuff, because it still sounds liek there will be no 1v1 play

in the interview the guy said it was going to be completely online, and that the story mode was somehow going to be incorporated into the online play (or something dumb like that)

Hm.... so it MIGHT be fully online, but with single player you can play offline?

 

I... don't know how to feel about that. As long as they keep the servers up (BLOODY SEGA AND THEIR GRADE A FAGGOTRY) I can see it working nicely.

Again, I gotta say that I like the direction AC5 seems to be trying to go in. I've wanted team play forever and if it really does end up being a kind of squad on squad deal then I'll still be able to do some damage on the field since my physical skills are pretty much hard-capped now thanks to my stupid hands and wrists.

I'm on your side PD. I still want to do 1v1's because I like them, but the team concept should add a whole bunch of life and flavor to the game as well as be more easily balanceable. Plus I think AC is a great game for that Operator role type since it has so much potentially useful info in it.

i wonder if theyre just gonna turn this into AC+chromehounds

 

that would be kinda lame imo but i dont think it would be bad either

 

TL;DR

• Those in favor of team play or the new team-play features:
  
  PD, Niji, Ren, Jackson, Densuo

  
  

• Those against the removal of 1v1/In favor of 1v1 over team:
  
  Exorcet, Lenin, Pen, Adonael

  
  

• Neutral:
  
  Nob

  
  

These aren't even mentioning the pages of discussion regarding what would make for a good team, that seemed to imply a favorable opinion by most people.

 

-----------------------

 

Edit: Done for the most part, and I'd like to mention that by no means is this a thorough or accurate portrayal of people's opinions on the matter. It's just what I found from spending about 10 minutes relooking through the thread, scanning for "team" or "1v1"

Edited May 10, 2011 by NlJl

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Yeah dood. And the one person I noticed (that I can remember) who said something along the lines of, "no 1v1 is lame i won't play" was Exorcet...and he didn't exactly say that. He said he wouldn't fk with it until he got a save file. Totally reasonable and something a lot of people (myself included) did in other games. Edited May 10, 2011 by Penguin Deus

[Griffon]

Ok, maybe my hyperbole didn't quite work, not exaggerated enough I suppose.

 

But it just seemed like when we finally got the first details of ACV without any mention of 1v1, a lot of people treated that as a potential dealbreaker. And now that it's confirmed it's an unimportant novelty.

[█␢█]

Only person it really seemed like a deal-breaker for was Exorcet.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

if there is no true 1v1 we could always sanction 1v1s ghetto style

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Like those bum fights huh

[Griffon]

Only person it really seemed like a deal-breaker for was Exorcet.

 

Oh, sonova, I think I was thinking of some of the posts at the ACG.

 

Griffon's an idiot!

[Harakiri Tiger]

EDIT: OMG I GOT NINJA'D GOD DAMN YOU NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~~~

 

Oh well. I know where Griffon is coming from since I saw a lot of that whining about 1v1 not being in the game in chat and at ACO the few times I read their ACV topics. I'd say we had a few people besides Exorcet who were worried about 1v1 not being in the game. There are probably quite a few relieved people, too. Haha.

 

Original Post in Spoiler:

Spoiler! --Click Here to View!--

I never complained about 1v1 not being in the game. Haha. I think I stated like 15 pages ago or something that normal PvP and Story mode play would still be in the game and they've been in the ACV summary topic for a long while. I remember reading some JP source about it quite a while ago. It's only been confirmed in english, really afaik. Haha.

 

PD and I share pretty similar views about AC players and egos and stuff and also views about team play in general, though. It's really only PD and I who have done any real form of 1v1 bashing, if you really wanted to call it that. And Exorcet and a few others have done some 1v1 whining because they weren't sure if the standard PvP was still in. I don't think anyone takes what I've written in the confirmed info seriously, tbh. I can understand though, since I don't have the sources posted. Anyway, PD and I have been somewhat arguing against 1v1 being all that special since we started posting in this thread since people like Exorcet and Adonael made it sound like it was super ultra important. Neither one of us really wants to do away with 1v1, though. I'm pretty sure we both want 1v1 and normal PvP play to stay in the game. Haha.

 

-----

 

But yes. Everyone is likely going to be in territory matches and most of the 1v1 players will probably just be people who are either extremely abusive, new, or trying to show off. I can almost gaurantee that. PD made a comment about everyone probably playing 1v1 and he's both right and wrong. He's only wrong because he wasn't around for AC4 and fA, really. He's right because the AC player mentality he's talking about is the same mentality that drove me to quit AC4 so many years ago. He just wasn't around to see the NA players transfer that mentality from 1v1 to BRs & Blades.

 

Before AC4, most casual players were living in their own little bubble. Just like that special snowflake PD mentioned. Everyone though they were pretty good, maybe not pro, but pretty damn good at AC. They all exhibited pretty strong traits of wanting to prove it via 1v1, too. Even if they were just talking about it over forums. I should know, I had a good bit of that mentality apparant in me too. I just lost it before I started posting on ACO. Anyway, what happened was that AC4 hit the scene with online.

 

First in Japan. Japan seemed to undergo a different reaction to having the casual player bubble popped than NA did. I had imported, so I got to witness it first hand. They mostly all tried out ranked 1v1 and some player match 1v1s, but that died out pretty fast. Most of them didn't like getting their asses handed to them, but for some reason the Japanese responded differently to it than the english speaking community did later on. The JPs mostly started playing team based matches, 2v2 and 3v3 were really common, and also these AC showcase rubbing bots against each other type matches where they didn't actually fight. While there were still a "lot" of 1v1 players, they were severely dwarfed by 2v2/3v3/Goofy matches. Heavy team play was the JP response to bubble pop. I don't know why it happened, but that's what happened. I actually didn't mind that at all. I assume it's because they were all exposed to each other more than NA AC players were due to Japan being smaller than NA and having more general access for casual players to play with each other. I'm not really sure, though.

 

The NA response was different, and to me significantly uglier. Hence why I quit and went to learn LR on Kai within about 2-3 months of AC4 being released here. Everyone tried to play ranked and 1v1s, and then everyone got their shit stuffed in. Much like the JP scenario, the really good players and the really abusive players just plain old cleaned house. The response to this was different in the NA community, though. I suppose this was some sort of effort to preserve the special snowflake idea. Everyone switched to doing Battle Royales and Blade Battle Royales. Very few team rooms and very few 1v1/team blade rooms available in comparison to BR Guns/BR Blades. This was also when that huge spike in Blades > Guns in skill arguments first really hit. There were always morons who thought that with older AC games too, but it was fucking huge about a month after the AC4 NA release. BRs let people mask crappy play a lot, which is probably why it happened. Blade BRs even moreso. Then about 2-3 months after release they all (Guns+Blades) started to push lag abuse to the extreme. It's like the english community was trying their absolute hardest to hide a lack of skill behind BRs and lag. It's what led to me quitting.

 

That's why I say PD is both right and wrong. It's that same mentality, I feel, that drives so many of them to do the BRs and Blades that would have drove them all to do the 1v1s when they still had no 1v1 experience. I highly doubt that it'll suddenly change and everyone will want to 1v1 now that they've all had their cherries popped. The NA communities trends slowly spread in the JP community when fA hit. Look how immensely popular blading became in fA, for both JP and NA scenes. I rarely ever see JP team battles anymore. Forced lag and heavy BR play just bent the entire games online up. I would be amazed if BRs, 2v2/3v3, and territory play don't completley dwarf 1v1 in ACV. Especially with territory play receiving the game designers focus. The AC player ego was pretty ruinous for AC4 if you ask me.

 

I'm not talking about the die-hard players like Exorcet and Chodimus and such who still hang around AC sites or the AC site regulars from before you'd see in chatrooms and forums and get into matches with. I'm talking about the fanbase fodder. The casual normal gamers that flood the online mode when the game releases and for about 6 months after the game is released. For all the people online AC communities see there's a far larger fanbase of casual players that never visit these sites and register. The fansite regulars just aren't big enough to set online trends. We'll likely be the minority that still tries to 1v1 and I'm fairly certain most heavy 1v1 players will find their way to the different AC fansite forums.

 

For example, a friend of mine works as a manager at the local gamestop here and has worked there as manager for like 6 years now. He managed to get ahold of LR sales in that store alone for me when I asked him for it. Idk if he's allowed to, but he did it for me. That one store sold something around 45 copies of LR to a 10 mile wide radius area or so. Maybe 15 mile. Pretty underpopulated rural hick-heavy area, too. It's possible that this area just has a strange overabundance of mech lovers or something, but I've never met them. I have only met 2 other people in-person in this area who know what AC is and I have never met any of them online. Just extrapolating that to the potential total amount of AC players leaves a huge descrepancy for general player base and AC fansite playerbase. If you were to add up all the active players now from all the english fansites you'd be lucky to get 100 active players, add up all the people that were really active over the past 4 years and you'd be lucky to get 1000. The hardcore players of fansites are a small, small portion of the real AC fanbase. That real fanbase is likely to trend heavily into team/br based play. I just don't see what reason they'd have to seriously 1v1.

 

You can even use StarCraft 2 as an example for the general player mentality. They all try 1v1, they all get beat up, and then they either quit or play team/free-for-all/ums.

 

 

 

PS: Like I said earlier, I'm still happy that normal PvP play is still in the game. It means we can actually have things like tournaments around here without all the hassle of territory play. I just am not one of those people that think the game will really need 1v1 and I also am one of the people who thinks 1v1 in this game will probably be like torturing yourself. Maybe it's because I have such little faith in the online community from my horrible AC4 experience, though. 1v1 is not the reason I'm going to be playing this game, unlike people like Exorcet.

 

[Exorcet]

It's a good thing I spent 3 years trying to get AC4 1 v 1 to work while FA was out. Now I'm ready for AC5.

 

But yeah, I don't care how big or small the 1 v 1 scene is, as long as it's there. When Exogen was the only one around, I just fought him. Now it's faust and LS.

 

I'm not against team matches, I was on one of AC4's most active teams. I even played for a FA team and I hated that game. I'll probably bring back OE for AC5, or maybe join team ACU if we decide to just have one big team. All I want is quick access to a 1 v 1 mode without having to jump through hoops like playing 5000000000000 matches to unlock AC5's ROZ or whatever. And if it's 5000000000000 matches to unlock CANO, I'm going to build a plane, fly to From's HQ, and punch everyone in there.

 

You say 1 v 1 isn't all that important. It is and isn't. AC5 doesn't need 1 v 1 to be a functioning game. It doesn't even need online. But I really want those things. Even FA was a fully working, competitive game, besides the massive lag. But I didn't like anything about it, so I didn't want to play it.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

And if it's 5000000000000 matches to unlock CANO, I'm going to build a plane, fly to From's HQ, and punch everyone in there.

 

hes really gonna do it

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

I didn't finish reading Niji's novel but I'm going to say I agree with it since what I did read seemed agreeable. Yes.

 

Exorcet you should fly a van into HQ instead. Flying planes into buildings is kinda taboo, especially since we just merc'd Osama!

[Griffon]

And if it's 5000000000000 matches to unlock CANO, I'm going to build a plane, fly to From's HQ, and

everyone in there.

 

Fixed.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Griffon