Armored Core 5 Discussion

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

The moonlight has been around since King's Field, before Armored Core.

[13th Knight]

The moonlight has been around since King's Field, before Armored Core.

 

 

And it's been the most overpowered, sought-after weapon in the entire franchise. In Armored Core, it has the highest attack power and second best range out of any laser blade up until Last Raven where it is nearly superseded by the ELF-3 blade and the CR-4 laser blade with over 12 range...which is kick ass, but I like the Moonlight. In the 4th generation games, it's known as a powerful blade with one of the longest ranges yet again, with incredible PA-attenuation damage but with high latency.

 

For Demon's Souls, it's one of the only weapons capable of completely ignoring shields, with incredible attack power, the ability to be upgraded, and the boosts it receives from the main stats it has. It's heavier, I think, than some weapons and a pain in the butt to get, but it's impressive even in NG+.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

King's Field is the franchise Demon's Souls belongs to.

 

EDIT: Wait a second, what? Moonlight overpowered? In Demon's Souls or AC? Are you kidding me?

 

SUPER EDIT for great Demon's Souls:

-How many times has a shield been a problem for you? Red Eye Knights? Enemy players at lower SLs maybe?

-Moonlight is one of the shortest large swords in the game, whereas the Blessed Claymore, it's direct weapon competitor, is the longest

-Moonlight's total damage is in direct competition with Blessed Claymore's magic damage...and it gets a 2nd source of damage on top of that

-Any weapon with magic or fire damage goes through most shields anyways, and blunt weapons break guard

-Moonlight is super light (2), but that doesn't matter much in that game since Claymore isn't that heavy anyways (6)

-Moonlight is a neat weapon but its hardly even mid tier

Edited May 18, 2011 by Penguin Deus

[Harakiri Tiger]

I thought Niji said he was guessing decay rate stat was related to effectiveness of the shot dropping off as it goes past its max effective range? idk

 

I'm very sure it is decay rate of the shots effectiveness, yeah.

 

For one thing, weapons in ACV do not have a max range stat. They have an optimal range, best literal translation is "Power Security Distance". EVE Online uses this same concept, but they have a set falloff range for you to add in and get your max range with. I'm fairly certain my translation of that stat into Optimal Range is about as good as it gets. You should get max impact damage in that range.

 

Decay Rate would make sense in that it would affect max range of the weapon, either via damage or velocity loss. The velocity stat isn't literally Bullet Velocity, either. I just listed it as bullet velocity for simplicities sake. It actually means "Initial Shot Velocity". This is different from the japanese 4/fA kanji used for it. The 4/fA term was literally "Bullet Speed". It was also two kanji instead of four. I'm certain there's some significance to it because of that. This could mean that bullets either have a set speed they maintain throughout the entire bullet flight, or that decay rate applies to bullet velocity after discharge.

 

This doesn't mean decay rate wouldn't apply to initial impact damage either, though. It could very easily apply to both velocity and impact damage (top damage stat). This could be a neat way of regulating damage over range for all kinds of weapons. I see no reason for kinetic and thermal weapons to not have a decay rate. Chemical weapons are a bit more confusing, especially since it seems chemical weapons don't necessarily mean explosive weapons. The howitzer shows off a seperate damage stat for its explosion, so we can assume explosive damage is seperate from impact damage. I suppose chemical weapons should still lose impact power and shot velocity, though.

 

Yeah moonlight has been a staple weapon of two different From Software franchises. Hell, it became a staple in one as a homage to the other.

 

Moonlight is in every FROM SOFTWARE game I've heard of. Including games like 3D Dot Heroes and some of their offshoot older games. I think it's in the Tenchu games, as well. I'm not 100% sure, though. Moonlight is FROM SOFTWARE staple stuff, tho. Most def.

 

As far as the decay rate is concerned...I hope that has more to do with damage output decreasing over distance with KE damage, and not CE (or whatever explosive damage is). It's been said already, but applying a damage decay to an explosive doesn't seem like it would a whole lot of sense. If it has more to do with weapon durability (like in LR), I'd be fine with that as long as it's implemented in a non-annoying way. But I think it would be more interesting if the decay rate had to do with scaling damage through range.

 

Explosive damage isn't tied to a specific damage type, as far as I know. I see no reason why an explosion can't be kinetic, thermal, or chemical based. Grenades, napalm missiles, acid bombs. The howitzer in the picture has kinetic explosive damage, for example. I'm fairly certain explosions don't suffer from the decay rate stat. I think that just has to do with ammunition velocity and impact power, maybe with impact stun too.

[Griffon]

Explosive damage isn't tied to a specific damage type, as far as I know. I see no reason why an explosion can't be kinetic, thermal, or chemical based. Grenades, napalm missiles, acid bombs. The howitzer in the picture has kinetic explosive damage, for example.

So you think we might get a choice between like, concussive and incendiary rounds? That would be sweet.

[Mechadon]

Explosive damage isn't tied to a specific damage type, as far as I know. I see no reason why an explosion can't be kinetic, thermal, or chemical based. Grenades, napalm missiles, acid bombs. The howitzer in the picture has kinetic explosive damage, for example. I'm fairly certain explosions don't suffer from the decay rate stat. I think that just has to do with ammunition velocity and impact power, maybe with impact stun too.

Right, that makes sense to me. Granted throwing that third damage type into the equation has sorta scrambled my brains. But I guess what I was trying to say was that the decay stat would most likely affect impact and velocity (essentially exactly what you just said), and not so much the damage types themselves (be that explosion radii and/or explosion damages...or etc). Which seems like a very plausible and interesting mechanic.

 

So you think we might get a choice between like, concussive and incendiary rounds? That would be sweet.

That would be pretty sweet actually. Seems like that's what the new damage types imply.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Mechadon

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

I'm very sure it is decay rate of the shots effectiveness, yeah.

 

For one thing, weapons in ACV do not have a max range stat. They have an optimal range, best literal translation is "Power Security Distance".

 

With firearms, they call that the effective range. The max range is how far the bullet could ever hope to fly on even ground.

 

"Initial Shot Velocity"

 

That sounds like muzzle velocity. I wouldn't be surprised if that's all it was: a muzzle velocity stat.

[13th Knight]

King's Field is the franchise Demon's Souls belongs to.

 

EDIT: Wait a second, what? Moonlight overpowered? In Demon's Souls or AC? Are you kidding me?

 

SUPER EDIT for great Demon's Souls:

-How many times has a shield been a problem for you? Red Eye Knights? Enemy players at lower SLs maybe?

-Moonlight is one of the shortest large swords in the game, whereas the Blessed Claymore, it's direct weapon competitor, is the longest

-Moonlight's total damage is in direct competition with Blessed Claymore's magic damage...and it gets a 2nd source of damage on top of that

-Any weapon with magic or fire damage goes through most shields anyways, and blunt weapons break guard

-Moonlight is super light (2), but that doesn't matter much in that game since Claymore isn't that heavy anyways (6)

-Moonlight is a neat weapon but its hardly even mid tier

 

Yes, in my uses it is. I hate blunt weapons, magic or fire damage gets through shields only a little bit, Blessed Claymore is a weapon whose ores I cannot seem to get my hands on, and I hate that swamp BEYOND ALL REASON. The Dragon Smasher is good, but takes forever to swing, and the claymore itself is only a mid-tier weapon. TBQH, I would like the Blind, but I don't want to have to kill Selen Vinland for it. That is suicide.

 

And yes, shields HAVE been problems for me, depending on the enemy. Mostly red eyes, but with the moonlight I laugh in their faces. I also attract trolls, apparently, as players with much higher soul levels tend to raid my system for no apparent reason-I've had the same player come back TWICE to try and kill me, and I succeeded in beating his ass out the second time.

 

Besides, a sword made out of moonlight? Freaking awesome. As for Armored Core, yes it is an OP weapon if you can use it correctly. Most everyone DOESN'T however, because apparently the Eltanin can beat it easy.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Yes, in my uses it is. I hate blunt weapons, magic or fire damage gets through shields only a little bit, Blessed Claymore is a weapon whose ores I cannot seem to get my hands on, and I hate that swamp BEYOND ALL REASON.

 

I'll give you all the ore you need. Hell, I'll give you ever +5 item in the game provided your in my SL range. I played at 120 range and I have all my files still. I probably have a copy of the game, as well.

 

The Dragon Smasher is good, but takes forever to swing, and the claymore itself is only a mid-tier weapon.

 

That's completely false. Claymores are one of the best weapon types in the game. Mirdan hammer, great axe, and uchigatana are the only weapon types that are better. Counting uniques you get to count Blueblood Sword as better, and that's about it.

 

dbs is slow but OHKOs at SL 120 are hilarious. Backstab speed is always the same, as well.

 

TBQH, I would like the Blind, but I don't want to have to kill Selen Vinland for it. That is suicide.

 

Suicide my ass. She's a wimp. Blind is a terrible weapon, though, so you're not missing out.

 

And yes, shields HAVE been problems for me, depending on the enemy. Mostly red eyes, but with the moonlight I laugh in their faces.

 

You can laugh in their face with your fist, too. The beauty of backstabbing.

 

I also attract trolls, apparently, as players with much higher soul levels tend to raid my system for no apparent reason-I've had the same player come back TWICE to try and kill me, and I succeeded in beating his ass out the second time.

 

You can't raid outside of your SL range, though. The equation for SL range is: SL Range = Your SL +/- (Your SL/10). Your opponents are always roughly even with you in terms of SL.

 

So for example:

 

SL 100 would have an SL range of 90-110. 100 +/- (100/10).

[Exorcet]

DS Moonlight is slow and kind of weak. My Crescent Kilij probably does more damage to shield users because it hits stuff.

 

AC Moonlight was only overpowered for a blade in AC1. Even then compared to guns, it wasn't super great. In AC4, even amongst blades, it has many weaknesses, namely slowness and drain. Against Some AI, blades are broken though. And I guess in FA.

 

I don't care much for blading though. I'd actually like it if blades were basically stuck as weapons meant to deal with numerous weaker enemies. They would make a lot of sense in AC5 like that considering that online missions will be a big deal, so they won't need to be anti AC weapons to be practical.

 

 

BTW you didn't show for my AC4 tournament.

 

 

 

PD I need some ores haha, plus 5 everything sounds good. I just need to get my PS3 fixed. You still play? Anyone on at all? Was barren last I was on DS.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Exorcet

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

DS Moonlight is slow and kind of weak. My Crescent Kilij probably does more damage to shield users because it hits stuff.

 

Bingo.

 

AC Moonlight was only overpowered for a blade in AC1. Even then compared to guns, it wasn't super great. In AC4, even amongst blades, it has many weaknesses, namely slowness and drain. Against Some AI, blades are broken though. And I guess in FA.

 

MoA is the only time where the Moonlight was the primary weapon for some of the best archetypes in the game. Specifically, featherlights that blitz in and try to get over your head and swing wildly. This is because the tracking was so absurd in that game that you could literally get pulled 180 degrees to land a swing. Being able to do that along with doing about 2-4k per swing leaves you with an exceedingly dangerous archetype.

 

EDITCET: I don't play anymore, no. I think Owen and I literally put in like 400+ hours on that game, each. I have my last four files still, so duping you items and ore would be a snap. Just let me know. I think I had a second psn that had some low level people I made to play with a buddy like 6 months back but idk if it's still there, haha.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Penguin Deus

[Griffon]

MoA is the only time where the Moonlight was the primary weapon for some of the best archetypes in the game. Specifically, featherlights that blitz in and try to get over your head and swing wildly. This is because the tracking was so absurd in that game that you could literally get pulled 180 degrees to land a swing. Being able to do that along with doing about 2-4k per swing leaves you with an exceedingly dangerous archetype.

 

I never got very far in MoA due to a damaged disc, but what you're describing is kind of what i'd like to see happen in V. Good tracking once your in close to let the blades do their work, opposed to good tracking at incredible range to let the blades snipe. I'd love to see good tracking allow blades to be viable in V as long as it completely not the kind of tracking they did in fA.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Griffon

[13th Knight]

I want the Blue Blood sword, but I freaking hate the swamp and the low drop rate for Broken Swords...and the Broken Sword is in the swamp, which is a pain in the ass to navigate. I swear, I faced that rolling girl with the Meat Cleaver and died about three or four times...hated it. Not to mention the fact that most everything else can run in it while I sit there and stagger.

 

I just like the moonlight. I'm decent enough wit ha lot of weapons, and...backstabbing's not my thing...period. I'm not sneaky at all.

 

As for the trolling thing, I was a terrible player at the time, and still possibly am, and so I had skills I thought were cool. Turned out they were almost useless in the end. The people tagging me had higher leveled spells, reached me from about ten feet away due to lag, and dual-wielded nasty weapons.

 

Erf...I just suck in PVP, lol.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

I never got very far in MoA due to a damaged disc, but what you're describing is kind of what i'd like to see happen in V. Good tracking once your in close to let the blades do their work, opposed to good tracking at incredible range to let the blades snipe. I'd love to see good tracking allow blades to be viable in V as long as it completely not the kind of tracking they did in fA.

 

Yeah I heard about it, and saw a couple videos. How absurd.

 

Yeah MoA was so dope. It was probably the best implementing of swords in an AC game, with maybe 2nd best being AA...mainly cuz stealth backmounts work great with swords and they still had solid tracking. But anyhow, essentially, if anyone got within your sphere of influence they were going to get cut. It was dope.

 

Do you think that would translate well in AC5 though? Based on what we've seen so far, I mean. I'd bet the AA style of sword tracking would work well, too.

[█␢█]

Explosive damage isn't tied to a specific damage type, as far as I know. I see no reason why an explosion can't be kinetic, thermal, or chemical based. Grenades, napalm missiles, acid bombs. The howitzer in the picture has kinetic explosive damage, for example. I'm fairly certain explosions don't suffer from the decay rate stat. I think that just has to do with ammunition velocity and impact power, maybe with impact stun too.

I'm not sure if it would be right to pull information from Chromehounds, but that game had basically the same damage system with KE and CE damage as well as a heat system. And in that game damage from weapons with explosives were due to both the explosive itself (which there was to range decay) and the velocity of the round (should you hit the target directly with them). CE was really neat because there was no damage decay so I'm curious as to if they keep the same concepts. As for the "thermal damage" all weapons did thermal damage to some extent, but there were also incendiary rounds that howitzers/grenade launchers could fire that did extreme amounts of heat damage, but not much else.

[Densuo]

I like my sticky compound longbow Iprefer parrying etc, but theres so many weapons you cant parry, kind ticks me off.

[Liarbird]

this isn't demon's souls discussion peoples... :X

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

well it should be because demons souls is awesome

 

also, bramd > all

 

 

 

the demo video from famitsu is next week, not tomorrow, right?

[Griffon]

I'm pretty sure it was today, but I think there's going to be another one next week as well.

[Harakiri Tiger]

Use the ACU Calendar to solve all your problems!

[Griffon]

Not really relevant to anything, but something came to mind about the individual part pics FROM has released, and that is take a look at just how high the level of detail is. I think these are going to be used for ACVs opening cinematic, which is cool because that means we may be getting our first cinematic Tank AC (No, I don't count PPs opening).

[Griffon]

Double-post, but I think we may have gotten a look at ACVs cover art. Looks legit to me, and completely gorgeous. I hope the US cover art is this good.

 

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8457/picture1apa.png

[The Talentless]

"Ooo, what's V? Oh, wait, it's Armored Core. Fuck that shit." -Casuals that dislike AC.

 

It really is a big V.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

V: Armored Core

[Mom]

It looks a bit too plopped for me. Like you could imagine them taking stock images and just plopping them wherever and putting bg on it.