Armored Core 5 Discussion

[GodlyPerfection]

Interesting. I like the ambush from above, not so much what felt like a bit of a mess once he landed.

 

Here is an ambush setup by one of the well known players from the xbox, wktk:

 

Ambush from How to properly play a team-centric LW

Edited February 24, 2012 by GodlyPerfection

[Nemphtis]

Here is an ambush setup by one of the well known players from the xbox, wktk:

 

Ambush from How to properly play a team-centric LW

 

The lack of a mini-map in Armored Core V is probably one of my favourite (missing) things.

 

Keeping yourself hidden and a certain distance from the enemy, reducing the risk of their operator spotting you with recon drones dropped near their team, then utilising your speed to get in, drop some FCS jammers to buy you more time and cover your escape, do some damage and get out before their operator has time to warn the team about what already happened. I shouldn't get too carried away though, I want to have the game in my hands to fully understand its workings before I start day dreaming about all the things I can do to be a nuisance to my opponents.

[Rachis]

I'm pretty sure he was just pointing out that the loading screen was so short that he doesn't even "remember" that there is one.

 

Thanks for explaining his post for me. I had absolutely no idea what he was trying to say. I really wish there were more people like you around to help guide me through the forums.

[Red Shirt (Grayscale)]

Anyway, can someone clarify this for me? I was trying to finish this story mission against that gun-toting psycho with the cannon OW; so far, it has never been able to damage me directly whenever I stayed underwater.

 

Heck, I even went so far to stay still and only had little-to-no damage, possibly exchanging its base damage for a weak AoE atk; which seems to have been applied whenever that OW's projectiles ended up touching the water's surface.

 

I'm not sure if it's either story-related, some sort of shitty weapon inaccuracy glitch (w/c causes you to get aoe damage cus it didnt hit you; thats if the OW has aoe damage to begin with, w/c i dont know), or meant to somewhat dissipate and scatter around if it ever tried to hit a target hiding underwater.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Red Shirt (Grayscale)

[sniper]

Really? That's funny. I guess water is just an almighty jerk in ACV. Normally the huge laser overweapon has a powerful AOE, though the one in story mode has a much less powerful AOE. I guess the laser is no match for water. I'm almost positive that if you tried this stunt in multiplayer you'd just die instantly. I should definatly try it though

[Aokiryu89]

Either I was delusional or the changes to the game effected the demo. Got S rank and knee kicked nearly everything in sight while half passed out. Could have sworn that was going to be nothing higher than a B.

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Thanks for explaining his post for me. I had absolutely no idea what he was trying to say. I really wish there were more people like you around to help guide me through the forums.

 

That really just flew right over you guys didn't it. I'm not usually known for that. 60 points for me then.

 

Niji mentioned those changes on chat but I didn't stick around long enough to fully grasp how it all effects the balance between weight classes. Nerfs to Snipers, Shotguns, Gatling Guns, Pulse Guns, Heat Howitzers. Faster charging time to most Laser Rifles, aside from the Karasawa which is still pretty much the same. Higher Efficiency for Generators all around making it easier for people to chain boost and increasing the speed of combat in general. Plus to rifles, Battle Rifles, and that's all I remember.

 

At the least I doubt ACV is going to fall like Chromehounds did...which was thoroughly explained in an article I cannot seem to find.

 

Pretty much Chromehounds ended up having one king design over everything else, and FROM kept tweeking the game in an attempt to bring back variety. Then another supreme design would rise above the rest again. This happened several times till they finally decided to kill the game.

 

With ACV not only do we have different weight classes, we have different armor types. If anything I doubt we will get stuck with every high level player using the same exact design. All the issues that occur with ACV balance can still be switched around, so I don't think the game is going to fail that hard that quickly.

[xiliquiern]

With ACV not only do we have different weight classes, we have different armor types. If anything I doubt we will get stuck with every high level player using the same exact design. All the issues that occur with ACV balance can still be switched around, so I don't think the game is going to fail that hard that quickly.

 

tl;dr - I think the ECM and other countermeasure opportunities in ACV are ripe for the picking; I just hope they are effective enough to cause use in the community.

 

Without having played it, or really read too much to the exact details, I'm inclined to agree. I'm sure there will be archetypes that cater to specific roles: hand-to-hand combat, short range combat, glass cannon, harassment, AP tank, missile jockey, OW, snipers, ambush, etc. However, I think the sheer number of roles is enough to create constant friction without having one specific build that is simply superior. I could see an EN equipped dual Karasawa monster having a hey day with damage centric Kinetic AP tanks, but it will be feeling pretty powerless (I'd hope) if he happens across someone playing a MW with Generator Jammers and fitted with EN armour. Similarly, I'd think the guerilla fighter would be hampered by Generator jammers, tracking rounds, movement jammers, FCS jammers. It's a lot harder to play that roll successfully if you can't boost well or can't move well otherwise. Similarly, if the opponent knows where you are all the time, it's a bit hard to get the drop. And if your FCS runs at a crawl, the surprise ambush turns into a skirmish.

 

As is common with other team based games, I could certainly see situations in which squads of four either carry a dispersed set of countermeasures, lowering their DPS, but making them far more effective, or deploy a single lightly armed Buff-fit AC to enhance friendly fighting abilities and negate enemy tactics.

[Katya]

I've a question to toss in the pot.

 

Online, it is team based battles. So when you go to do an online mission, or go to take territory, you will pretty much have preassigned roles for each team member, correct?

 

Just wondering because I suspect my style of play is very similar to Nemphtis'. I like to go in, cause havoc, and get out. Which will make me a sad panda if no one on the team wants a LW ; ;

 

On the plus side, a MW could do all of that too. But I do tend to like the scout/ambush/harass/team support roles. I'll just need to be prepped for any role though, kind of like playing FreeAllegiance.

 

Oh boy, to think I have one more month to wait for this game.

 

It's going to be one long month. I have too many ideas that I want to test out NOW!!!

 

I should have imported

[Nemphtis]

If you join a team, it depends on how seriously they take the game. Those who are very competitive and play solely to win will strive for the most balanced and effective units even if it means sacrificing the personal preference of some of its members. There will of course be just as many if not more teams out there for people who want the advantages of working together but not to the extent where they feel it's necessary to leave their comfort zone just to attain victory. Oh and at the very bottom you have mercenaries which I doubt will be blamed for using their preferred weight class or tactics because they are, at the end of the day, outsiders who have little interest in the internal politics of that team.

[Aokiryu89]

If you join a team, it depends on how seriously they take the game. Those who are very competitive and play solely to win will strive for the most balanced and effective units even if it means sacrificing the personal preference of some of its members. There will of course be just as many if not more teams out there for people who want the advantages of working together but not to the extent where they feel it's necessary to leave their comfort zone just to attain victory. Oh and at the very bottom you have mercenaries which I doubt will be blamed for using their preferred weight class or tactics because they are, at the end of the day, outsiders who have little interest in the internal politics of that team.

 

It's a good thing then, that we have multiple schematics and that we can play roles as mercs and still be part of a team.

 

Ah it's going to be so badass, being hired for a low ranking team and their opponent quivering at the sight of your team emblem alone without even knowing who you are as an individual. Then if your a boss player that equals double fear points.

[Harakiri Tiger]

You generally take on a role, yes. But you're not useless no matter what role you take on. More people is always better in this game. Here's a simple guide for roles.

 

Invading Force: LW Biped, MW Biped, HW Biped, LW RJ, HW RJ

Defending Force: Quadruped, Tank

 

There's nothing wrong with mixing and matching, but generally speaking those leg types do better at those things. Hardly anyone will actually try and make you play a specific leg class, though. Normally what happens is that 4-5 people make a room and all just pick a random AC they like and then go do PvP that way. Most people don't care what you bring.

 

Ideally you would all take on specific roles and try your hardest not to die, as that would weaken your team.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Snipers got a buff, not a nerf. Arms have much higher firing stability, which means all guns will have very high rates of fire now on all arms. Generators have increased EN output, because people whined that there isn't enough EN. Weight no longer has a strong impact on your legs, so before you would load up to the weight cap and legs like ULG-21 would be pretty slow because they were carrying so much. Now that weight counts for far less against your movement speed, so you can max something like ULG-21 and it'll still go almost as fast as an empty LW. Except it can carry 6650kg weight or so.

 

Water prevents damage from occuring unless you shoot them right on top of the head. They changed the water mechanics during the PS3 beta so you couldn't QB or attack while you were underwater, so all you can do in response is jump straight up now. Works vs AI, but you'll probably get a knee to the face vs people.

 

Jammers are all very buff. I run a support LW that absolutely crushes the opposing team with jamming/recon/team buffs. Three jammers (FCS/Recon/Move), a weapon or tracker gun, and dual subcomputer shoulders setup.

 

Nice video Art.

[sniper]

The CE arms lost some firing stability so the max fire rate and accuracy for shotguns, gatlings, and such is lower then before.

 

Regarding jammers, am I mistaken in thinking that the head parts' anti-interferance ability has to do with movement jammers?

[Ultibreaker]

Ok so all the arms got a stability buff, but how do TE and KE compare to Ce in terms of stability? Do CE arms still have the most in stability? How far off are other arms? I remember CE were like 210-240 while all the other arms were 80-130. Another thing is how much more EN did we get? Does it show in the generator stat, where for exp the UGN-70/ho Vital had 17030 and now with the patch it shows more?

[sniper]

CE arms went down to about 170 to 199 or something. Other arms got a buff of up to +10 I think. Most generators got +700 ish output except the highest outout gen, the somethingsomething VITAL. That one is still the highest output gen. I don't think its output was changed. I just turned the game off and I don't want to go back and look :/

[Griffon]

Generators have increased EN output, because people whined that there isn't enough EN. Weight no longer has a strong impact on your legs, so before you would load up to the weight cap and legs like ULG-21 would be pretty slow because they were carrying so much. Now that weight counts for far less against your movement speed, so you can max something like ULG-21 and it'll still go almost as fast as an empty LW. Except it can carry 6650kg weight or so.

 

I don't really like the sound of that. :

 

From what I played in the demo, the low EN made QB a lot less spammable, I'll be upset if it's anywhere close to fA levels now. And from what the weight thing sounds like, sounds like they should have kept that the same, I know underweighting was a problem in some of the PS2 games but it sounded like the system implemented before was working fine. :

Maybe I should stop complaining about changes made to a game I haven't played yet.

[Ultibreaker]

More En is good and what they did with the M Legs is good too. I can see why they did it, they are trying to make the Mids in the game more of a standard where it's fast enough to keep up but not as fast as a lightweight. Right now as it is a lightweight can run circles around a mid. Spamming QB in this game is way different than FA. FA had that crazy power where you can spam QB and end up in the other side of the map, here u can spam it but prepare to run out of EN quick unless you have low consumption boost which doesn't get you too far. If you want to keep up with a lightweight as a mid high acceleration boost would fit you best but are drainy. the nerf to shottie, pulse guns, and gats was necessary, if you been keeping up the the ACV videos online you'll see that it's being abuse cause it hurts ALOT. What needed good change got buffed, turning speed of sniper canon scope, EN weapon charge time, rifle atk pwr... Trust me this game is way far off from being like FA.

[Griffon]

here u can spam it but prepare to run out of EN quick unless you have low consumption boost which doesn't get you too far.

That's certainly how it felt in the demo, you're sure the energy boost didn't change that?

[GodlyPerfection]

More En is good and what they did with the M Legs is good too. I can see why they did it, they are trying to make the Mids in the game more of a standard where it's fast enough to keep up but not as fast as a lightweight. Right now as it is a lightweight can run circles around a mid. Spamming QB in this game is way different than FA. FA had that crazy power where you can spam QB and end up in the other side of the map, here u can spam it but prepare to run out of EN quick unless you have low consumption boost which doesn't get you too far. If you want to keep up with a lightweight as a mid high acceleration boost would fit you best but are drainy. the nerf to shottie, pulse guns, and gats was necessary, if you been keeping up the the ACV videos online you'll see that it's being abuse cause it hurts ALOT. What needed good change got buffed, turning speed of sniper canon scope, EN weapon charge time, rifle atk pwr... Trust me this game is way far off from being like FA.

That's certainly how it felt in the demo, you're sure the energy boost didn't change that?

 

Ummm you can totally play with the same amount of QB spam in AC4/FA in the demo. Once I figure out how to get this HD PVR stuff cleared up I'll upload some videos of high speed gameplay. It may not be as fast as ACFA, but good/efficient pilots can be as maneuverable as they were back in AC4. The main restriction is using high reload rate weapons like shotguns that basically allow you to stay in scan mode in between shots to maximize EN regen. But with the efficiency of Glide Boost (overboost) it is possible to keep your speed by pairing it with chainboosting. Chainboosting is also a lot more effective because it no longer suffers the restriction of using two different axis to cancel HB (QB) cooldown because there is no more cooldown. This makes jousting and heavy circle strafing insane. The nerfs to shotties/pulses may even this out... but with the buff to EN output I feel it is only going to get worse once people figure it out. My wife leaves with the baby tomorrow so I'll have more time to dedicate to dealing with capturing to get up a video of what I'm talking about.

[Ultibreaker]

There's only 2 ways to spam QB in the demo, very light mid or lw with only 2 guns (high accl boost) with vital generator or enough weaponry but low consumption boost. OB is very necessary this time around to keep a steady fast flow, not just by QB'ing

[Griffon]

Ok so one more question, I've heard something called "Drift Boost". From my understanding its some way of using Overboost/Glide Boost to turn around quickly. How exactly does that work?

[GodlyPerfection]

There's only 2 ways to spam QB in the demo, very light mid or lw with only 2 guns (high accl boost) with vital generator or enough weaponry but low consumption boost. OB is very necessary this time around to keep a steady fast flow, not just by QB'ing

 

Not true at all... I can keep heavy CQC pressure w/ shottie/pulse and short range missiles (no jousting). And I can do that with max EN head, recon, and legs (obviously we only have one pair of LWs in the demo... lol).

 

 

EDIT:

 

Ok so one more question, I've heard something called "Drift Boost". From my understanding its some way of using Overboost/Glide Boost to turn around quickly. How exactly does that work?

 

It is actually drift turning... shut off your boosters and hold left/right on the right thumbstick. The more forward momentum you have the more of a turn you can get out of it. From regular sliding you get practically none, HB is ok, GB is better, and GB/HB at once is the best you can get. Because there is no quick turning this is extremely effective and can also be used as a energy management trick that allows you to regen energy as you turn.

Edited February 25, 2012 by GodlyPerfection

[sniper]

The EN buff isn't even that big. It mostly makes balanced and high capacity generators more usable.

 

FINALLY! That sucked. Finally got the con farnit rasifrasin don't take any fred forbid damage on the blarg forsaken LLL. Had to use mercs to do all the work while I hid behind a building. I'd try some more by myself but THE STUPID TIME LIMIT IS ALREADY UP!

 

I will never stop complaining about that time limit.

Edited February 25, 2012 by sniper

[GodlyPerfection]

The EN buff isn't even that big. It mostly makes balanced and high capacity generators more usable.

 

Hehehe... that's the best part.

[sniper]

I do like that they made a lot more parts usable in this rebalancing. So far I've only found what they did to heat howitzers to be bad. They nerfed them too much.

 

I'm surprised they didn't change anything for boosters. I find myself using only 2 of the boosters for all my ACs. I might just not be seeing the usefulness of the other boosters.

[Griffon]

Ok, I lied about the last question being the last one, had one more I forgot to ask. Sorry if it's been asked before.

Is there friendly fire? Like if a teammate is duking it out with someone and I fire, say, some howitzer rounds or a sniper cannon shell, could I run the risk of damaging my teammate?

What about turrets? If it's a fight on your territory, could a badly aimed turret shot hurt you, or what about these jamming fields I heard about?

 

I know I'm asking a lot of dumb questions. Just trying to get as big a picture as I can while I wait for the NA release.