Armored Core: Verdict Day Discussion

[exogen]

Rach,

 

the reason that I think you guys would damage race each other when not behind cover, based on the video, and in my opinion, is that you guys had not yet gotten to the level in AC4 (a level I achieved much much later) where you could dodge while traveling in the same direction. The key to moving in the same direction and dodging at the same time is to stagger your movement but not completely stop. You QB in one direction but hold the stick in the opposite after you finish and while your momentum is still up. Also letting go and turning on boost incorporated in that, than repeat. Vary the ryhthum according to the weapon properties and you can throw off the FCS. This metthod is not always full proof because of angles and the positioning game, but there are ways to cotinually avoid fire while at mid range and at close, you can as well to a great degree, and also break locks.

[Ataraxis]

So uh, how 'bout the US ACVD Collector's Edition. http://www.siliconer...urine-art-book/

 

My experience with Club Namco says some people should expect disappointment. Shafted hard in the Ni No Kuni debacle.

 

Guilty or Innocent?

 

INNOCENT.

 

Feed them to the Sharkticons.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Keanushiro

[Rachis]

he reason that I think you guys would damage race each other when not behind cover, based on the video, and in my opinion, is that you guys had not yet gotten to the level in AC4 (a level I achieved much much later) where you could dodge while traveling in the same direction. The key to moving in the same direction and dodging at the same time is to stagger your movement but not completely stop. You QB in one direction but hold the stick in the opposite after you finish and while your momentum is still up. Also letting go and turning on boost incorporated in that, than repeat. Vary the ryhthum according to the weapon properties and you can throw off the FCS. This metthod is not always full proof because of angles and the positioning game, but there are ways to cotinually avoid fire while at mid range and at close, you can as well to a great degree, and also break locks.

 

Are you fucking kidding me right now exogen? I say here's videos of me not damage racing with Pete and then you come up with reasons why we played against each other the way we did based on a playstyle I was using that is obviously not damage racing?

 

Pete and I played the way we did because it ended up being nothing but a positioning battle. All it ended up being was qb turn fights and that was just in our cqc machines, but that's what we had the most fun in against each other. What bothers me is you never witnessed us playing each other, then came up with some conclusion on how it must've went down based on evidence that has zero correlation with what we did and then straight up tell me that we weren't "on the level" in that game? Fuck man you and a lot of guys were garbage at that game when we played a bunch. Your era of peeps didn't happen until after we weren't playing all that much anymore. I know Pete was still on, but when I started playing on the Xbox I didn't have a reason to play because nobody was as good or as fun to play with as Pete. The only competition on Xbox was Avenger...lolz.

 

Just let me tell ya...you can't risk staying in front of someone for any length of time that is as good or better than you when that individual is rocking a damage race mech. You're "technique" doesn't hold any ground because it's assuming that I'm circle strafing and staggering your movement is just asking to get shot. You are going slower. In AC4, you needed to get to their side, above, or behind. In battles that did not involve weapons that were focused on spamming, then sure I'll give your post some merit, but I wouldn't exactly call it a next level maneuver. It's just common sense.

 

I moved the way I did in those particular videos because you couldn't be caught out against rifles when the stun fucked up LW's. I had to keep my momentum up and I had to give the guy a little bit of space hence the big radius circle strafe. I think in that particular mech my sweet spot was 400-600.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Rachis

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkHZ3b3log

 

KOJIMA IS KING OF DAMAGE RACE

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

nob is too sik

 

fuck

 

you basically just stared at homie for too long and he died

[exogen]

Rach,

 

I was adressing your statement where you said you were damage racing with Pete, which I thought was around the same time as that video. I wasn't saying the video you posted was an example of damage racing. If that video was an indication of your style I'm saying it would explain why you would make statements like this.

 

I lived by cover in AC4 unless I was damage racing with Pete. Here's a couple examples if you don't believe me. This was back when rifle stun fucked LW's. This dude was cocky was fuck thinking that I was garbage at that game when the truth was Pete, myself, Redrummurder, and a couple others at that particular time were way ahead of a lot of players. I think this was before you really came into your own as well exogen and before ultibreaker's cocky self as well. Although, at least ultibreaker backed it up for awhile.

 

[/font][/color]

 

Are you fucking kidding me right now exogen? I say here's videos of me not damage racing with Pete and then you come up with reasons why we played against each other the way we did based on a playstyle I was using that is obviously not damage racing?

 

No,

 

but the way you move, gives me a reason as to why you guys would be damage racing elsewhere. I'm not faulting you or trying to belittle you in the slightest and not trying to indirectly toot my own horn. I'm just commenting from a high level perspective on what I think is the reason why you guys would be damage racing. You know I'm your dog!

 

I will say one thing, and if THIS is what your talking about specifically than I stand corrected; in 1.1 the stun lock was crazy unless you were tuned for stability and grounded.

 

Pete and I played the way we did because it ended up being nothing but a positioning battle. All it ended up being was qb turn fights

 

Right, and you have said this before. But AC4 high level play doesn't reduce to "QB turn fights." Hell I barely used QT unless it was done offensively. I'll give you that positioning is a huge part, but positioning in and of itself is a complex and dynamic part of the game.

What bothers me is you never witnessed us playing each other, then came up with some conclusion on how it must've went down based on evidence that has zero correlation with what we did and then straight up tell me that we weren't "on the level" in that game? Fuck man you and a lot of guys were garbage at that game when we played a bunch. Your era of peeps didn't happen until after we weren't playing all that much anymore. I know Pete was still on, but when I started playing on the Xbox I didn't have a reason to play because nobody was as good or as fun to play with as Pete. The only competition on Xbox was Avenger...lolz.

 

Yeah, your right I didn't rise to high skill till much later after you guys quit. That is why what I am saying is in no way an insult. But, I do know, and Pete would not disagree here because I have talked to him many many times about this, that the level I got to later was much higher than the level you guys were on..much higher. Seriously, I'm not bullshiting here or trying to make myself sound like the greatest player ever. Just talking in terms of messurable skill and methods. My metagame knowledge was just greater because I put more time into it than you guys ever did and had psychotic dedication. The same would be true or anyone in my shoes, yourself included.

 

Just let me tell ya...you can't risk staying in front of someone for any length of time that is as good or better than you when that individual is rocking a damage race mech. You're "technique" doesn't hold any ground because it's assuming that I'm circle strafing and staggering your movement is just asking to get shot. You are going slower. In AC4, you needed to get to their side, above, or behind. In battles that did not involve weapons that were focused on spamming, then sure I'll give your post some merit, but I wouldn't exactly call it a next level maneuver. It's just common sense.

 

That's not true. Niji, for example, can testify to this. Yaka, who btw was of the opinion that AC4 was all about damage racing and all that bla bla, was playing with us one night. It was me, Niji, Llama and Yaka playing AC4. He was rocking MG rifle. I was rocking the same shit on a LW as well. I danced around him right in his face and just fucked with his FCS, basically pitbulling him like you would in the older games, just with new school mechanics. Niji saw this, ask him about it. Yaka didn't even know you could play like that.

 

The reality is that once you get enough control and practice you can manuver in very complex ways to trick the FCS, just like in the older games. That is where the staggering of your movement comes in. But I wasn't saying that staggering your movement in the way I said was the universal answer. It is just one method among countless others. That's why I describe it as dynamic. Like, I wont do that staggering of the movement while going in one direction unless I'm at mid. In close I will do diferent things, but whatever I do it will be to fool your FCS and lead you in the positioning game where I want you to be so you can't hit me well.

 

 

 

I moved the way I did in those particular videos because you couldn't be caught out against rifles when the stun fucked up LW's. I had to keep my momentum up and I had to give the guy a little bit of space hence the big radius circle strafe. I think in that particular mech my sweet spot was 400-600.

 

the stun lock part I get, but there were other ways that exist that were far superior to the way you were playing. You just weren't advanced enough to know about them. Again rachis, that's not an insult, just saying there are high levels of skill you don't know about cause you quit playing.

 

You didn't need to circle strafe him though. There are other methods, even on 1.1, that work way better.

[Mom]

I'd give you you 10 tries to get in on me in ac4 without the use of cover in a wide open map without taking a good chunk of damage. Nobody used the maps without cover in the first place for tournaments so it doesn't matter.

 

The boost mechanics allow you to potentially cover ground fast and close gaps quickly, but you're sure as hell not going to be avoiding damage while doing so.

Edited June 8, 2013 by The OB Express

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

moving foward narrows your angles of approach and you move towards oncoming fire much faster so its a lot easier to get hit by things that you normally shouldnt get hit by

 

you can consistently nail LWs with zooks if LWs try to close the gap in an open area

[exogen]

I'd give you you 10 tries to get in on me in ac4 without the use of cover in a wide open map without taking a good chunk of damage. Nobody used the maps without cover in the first place for tournaments so it doesn't matter.

 

The boost mechanics allow you to potentially cover ground fast and close gaps quickly, but you're sure as hell not going to be avoiding damage while doing so.

 

I don't have the skill anymore to do this. But yeah, it is possible to have a CQC match in virtual A or desert and rape a dude and take minimal damage (not a huge chunk), if any.

 

The mechanics allow for it is my point. It all depends on how the other player wants to play. Because of side booster dominance if someone wants to backpedal you, they can, which forces you to backpedal them to avoid taking damage. It all depends on if the guy gives you the opening to get in on him. Then you have the tools to rape him in close by confusing them.

 

moving foward narrows your angles of approach and you move towards oncoming fire much faster so its a lot easier to get hit by things that you normally shouldnt get hit by

 

you can consistently nail LWs with zooks if LWs try to close the gap in an open area

 

You don't attach by going right in head on though, and don't forget about OB.

 

The only real problem is backpedaling like I said before.

[Rachis]

Good talk Exogen.

 

Btw, since we never played together for any substantial amount of time, I'm going to just assume that your post is just a big joke and that we'll see one day what happens. Hopefully, there will be an AC game worth doing 1v1's in.

 

Also, Yaka was complete doo doo at AC4. It wasn't his game by a long shot. Nexus was.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Rachis

[exogen]

I'm not taking the high road. If I was I wouldn't go to the extent of saying that the level I was at was something anyone else couldn't reach (disclaimers and such). I just know that this business about AC4 being damage racing isn't true. Yaka was just an example. It wasn't supposed to be proof, just anecdotal evidence to open up your mind.

I will agree with you on one thing. There is a sort of pointlessness in debating it because I am in no shape to prove it through demonstration at this point, and don’t really have the interest either.

But saying my explanation makes no sense is not fair; how would you know it makes no sense? If I got to a level way beyond anything you ever thought possible with the game, how would you really know?

[Rachis]

Lets hope AC:VD is worth the time in 1v1 and we'll have some games. Edited June 8, 2013 by Rachis

[exogen]

Well it depends on what level we are arguing on. A demonstration would be a fast and easy way to get to the bottom of this. But since I don't play anymore that is not an option. That doesn't mean we can't break it down in words, but I can see now that given the level of disagreement, it would take so long that it's pointless.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

STEVE SO SALTY

[exogen]

Damn it Rach, you keep changing your post so it looks like I am responding to things that aren't there! lol dude come on.

 

Anyways,

 

yeah switching this dicssusion back to AC: Veneral desease: look at this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCOhV0_fRco

 

Take for example, the battle that begins at 20:32

 

Notice that the reason that the AC's keep getting hit is because the boost is to steady. You can't move in a such a way that throws off the FCS. QB doesn't really change things much. So VD still looks like a damage race like ACV.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

we all agree acv 1v1 combat is mostly damage race and its been established in this thread forever

 

but acv isnt focused around direct combat and emphasizes different skillsets

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

nob is master of arena at acv

[exogen]

I still think that its lame, cause unless we are talking about steaking up on people and getting the drop and then running away, we aren't talking about anything.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

well that's only cuz none of us actually like acv lol

 

if we did there'd be plenty to talk about prolly

[Rachis]

It doesn't work that way Exogen. We can't hash out how our methods would play out in words. We would just have to do it. And neither of us play and just playing wouldn't really solve anything because neither of us would be in our prime condition anyways.

 

Not to mention just doing 1v1's for a day still doesn't solve anything because you have to create a history to really prove one thing or another. The opportunity for us to understand each other in this case just isn't there.

 

I keep changing my posts because I'm cranky today and it's showing in my posts the first time I put it up. And then I re-read it and feel like a jackass. I'm better than that.

[Aokiryu89]

My experience with Club Namco says some people should expect disappointment. Shafted hard in the Ni No Kuni debacle.

 

 

 

INNOCENT.

 

Feed them to the Sharkticons.

 

 

 

Whoa what did they do? Promise shit that didn't happen? Poor Packaging? I'm about to snatch it simply for the toy and artbook but if there's some bullshit I'll just get the normal pre-order.

 

Spare me this mockery of justice indeed.

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

iirc the issue was basically they botched the pre-ordering situation badly, mainly because they sold way more copies of the game than they planned for. Most people who ordered wizard's addition got it super late because of that. Myself included.

 

Also some doods called PlayCanada ran a big scam on a ton of people and took their dough. Namco didn't know about them til after the game released so they had to put up with all the complaints from people who got con'd by PC.

[exogen]

You know Rach, I think we actually could get to the bottom of this, but that would assume we were both willing to sit in a 1v1 all day and talk on skype to figure all this stuff out in game. Neither of us give a shit to do that so yeah....

 

AHH so fustrating from is. I really would love to play Armored Core, but they keep trying to make it call of duty.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

or u cud just disagree and not have to make people understand everything

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

now you're just being ridiculous nob

 

stop