Armored Core: Verdict Day Discussion

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

Point is, I guarantee you got the same response anyone else would have for saying that.

 

word is bond

 

You're overthinking stuff bruh

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

raor gives a shit about post count

 

fa gameplay looks like 4 gameplay but less genbusting

[Mom]

Fuck you there's no genbusting in ac4.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

your hi-laser quad ran pretty dry

[Aokiryu89]

burn?

[Liarbird]

Genbusting wasn't in 4 or fA.

 

Genbusting is when you well... run passed the redline, and fuck yourself.

 

I'm glad its in V and VD somewhat. but its nowhere near as wrecking as it was in the older gens.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

Genbusting wasn't in 4 or fA.

 

[Liarbird]

 

It most certainly was not, asshole.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

It most certainly was not, asshole.

 

it most certainly was, faget

[Pendragon]

I don't think it was AS prevalent in AC4. In the previous ones, genbusting was definitely noticable.

[Rachis]

AS prevalent? lol

 

You either had energy or you didn't. There was no "bust."

[YUNG MASTERLESS GLENCOUR]

YEAH THAT'S HOW I REMEMBER IT TOO FOR AC4

 

THERE WAS NO GEN-BUSTING

[Aokiryu89]

More like Gen Dieting.

[Drathar Warrior]

fa is not that fast

 

the biggest issue with fa is that AC design is much more important than the players mechanical and strategical skill

I disagree with the second part of this post. If you had an energy focused offense design, and I brought an energy weak defensive design ( or vice versa with kinetic), I stood a much better chance of out-piloting you and winning in FA than I would in 5. ACV leans much more heavily on the paper/rock/scissors mechanic. Some people find that a good thing, but I really don't. I'm really hoping that they smooth out the extremes in defenses in ACVD. I would rather not go into a fight guaranteed to lose simply because your AC is my exact foil as far as stats are concerned, regardless of piloting skill. Anyway, so far ACVD looks promising, though I really wish they would just bring back actual back weapons.

[Rachis]

ACV leans much more heavily on the paper/rock/scissors mechanic.

 

While this is certainly true, you have to take into account that FA is a far easier game to play than ACV and ACV is also balanced for team-play. So naturally, more designs in FA are going to be competitive than in ACV. This isn't ACV's fault. Just that the two games were designed with different styles of play in mind. We still aren't completely used to team play and what's possible because we've only really been doing it for one game. While AC4 and FA had team capabilities, that generation was still designed largely with 1v1's in mind. You're going to get away with more there because it's necessary to achieve a suitable variety.

 

I'm really hoping that they smooth out the extremes in defenses in ACVD.

 

The extremes actually need to be pushed further. High power weapons can still rip right through high defenses of their respective type. This is expecially evident with KE weapons being that well played shotguns, rockets, and missiles can shred a tank. It's possible with CE weapons, but the extreme power there is wasted on skill weapons (howitzers). And TE weapons burn through energy really bad so they don't quite rip apart TE defense like the other two types could. It's theoretically possible if you had enough energy though.

 

What I think needs to happen is the removal of damage specialization among the weapons themselves and add that mechanic into the part tuning. If every weapon could hurt each defense type equally I feel the defense types would kinda balance themselves out in that respect because then the goal goes back to getting the overall defense that you desire. You could then adjust what defense you want to hurt a little more through part tuning. I think that would open up the metagame considerably. This would enable you to spec your weapons to hurt AC types that you would be weak against while also simplifying the defense stacking on our end.

 

Example:

 

Rifle in ACV would have 600 attack power for KE.

 

In new game, same rifle would have 600 attack power that counted towards KE, CE, and TE.

 

You put that rifle on a quad as a consistent poking weapon. You're naturally going to be more vulnerable to AC's with greater turning radiuses than yourself so you spec for TE damage to damage those bipeds and RJ's that you have problems keeping up with.

 

New spec rifle buffs TE damage to 700 while dropping KE and CE to 550 each.

 

Same rifle could be thrown on a lw biped. You want to hunt sniper quads, but still have to contend with other AC types just as mobile with yourself. So you could either buff KE or TE there depending on what you plan on fighting against the most.

 

The system still isn't perfect because of TE defense, but hopefully my point was received.

[exogen]

My issue with ACV is that they have departed from classic game design elements, mostly in regards to mechanics. I agree with Rachis about the defense stats (KE,CE,TE) not being balanced. Hopefully ACV:vd will make it better in terms of stats being more balanced.

 

Mechanics: Personally I don't think that taking out flight was a good idea for many reasons but I am willing to try something new. But there are many problems with the new boost system and the physics. What I think the game needs is a faster ability to change direction with normal boost, and slightly faster normal boost, to enable better twitch dodging. The glide boost I want to see faster as well. Currently the game is more of a damage race, and given the lack of speed and dodging capacity even cover use is not as practical because the high inertia does not cater to gruella-style pop out attacks as previous games did. If you get hit with one bullet you can lose so much life (especially if you play LWs) that it doesn't even make sense for all the work you just did.

 

The biggest criticism I have aside from the physics and boost mechanics I already mentioned is the fact that you can't circle strafe with QB/HP. This is a HUGE problem in my view for CQC. In my eyes it destroys CQC by building in simple counters that push us back into a damage race. basically the game only takes away from flanking by not having circle strafing in that way. You need HP circle strafing to maintain flanks at points (which of course could be countered by GB or another circle HP but that would be part of the fun of the game). Until they fix that I will not play it for long because flanking has always been what I have liked to do when I play, even going back to the AC1 days.

 

Team balance: This issue of team based AC's vs. AC's designed for 1v1 is, in my opinion, that 1v1 balanced games are a far better choice. Here is how I see it; AC games designed with 1v1 in mind still allow for team play because who wins in a team situation is only who has better tactics (relative to any tier imbalances of course) where as, in a team-based AC, 1v1 is nonsense, tiers still exist which undermines the team intended balance, and tactics matter less because part choice matters more. Also, your design choices are more limited because of the rock/paper/scissors dynamic. Therefore in a game based on 1v1 you get less rock paper scissors (depending on how well the tiering is eliminated), your freedom of design choice as a result is less structured, team tactics are what rules which manifest themselves in the tactics of each built type without having any type dominate (in theory) over another, which allows for more freedom of choice. In short, a 1v1 game allows for skill to be the prevailing factor and gives more freedom of design choice, whereas team balanced games only diminish those things.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

acv isnt about dodging things because it was (supposedly) geared towards team strategy in a 5v5 layout

 

it was more about using map cover and coordinated advances rather than flying across the map and being able to dodge fire from 4 ACs + turrets

 

and sure 1v1 games have their advantages, but independent layouts are not the end-all for all competition or display of skill.

 

its safe to say that there is much more dynamic to properly creating a balanced 5-man team and having the teamwork and communication to consistently win

 

 

 

(as far as LWs and CQC goes, idk about you but i was pretty successful with being able to flank with a LW in team situations)

[Aokiryu89]

acv isnt about dodging things because it was (supposedly) geared towards team strategy in a 5v5 layout

 

it was more about using map cover and coordinated advances rather than flying across the map and being able to dodge fire from 4 ACs + turrets

 

and sure 1v1 games have their advantages, but independent layouts are not the end-all for all competition or display of skill.

 

its safe to say that there is much more dynamic to properly creating a balanced 5-man team and having the teamwork and communication to consistently win

 

 

 

(as far as LWs and CQC goes, idk about you but i was pretty successful with being able to flank with a LW in team situations)

 

 

It really is unfortunate the game on this side hasn't allowed for such a team to develop and stick together.

 

It seems like VD is promising a more fluid online experience. If so then even if the player base is small those who play wont be shut out of the high level teams and be able to cause enough havoc individually to still be rewarding. Newbies are still jumping into V so I'm not too worried about the low end of it.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

im getting jp version

[Griffon]

im getting jp version

I'm still praying that they get the game out without region lock, so hopefully it won't really matter.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

its most likely going to be region locked between japan and the-rest-of-the-world because of language barrier

 

hopefully it isnt region locked between the-rest-of-the-world and the-rest-of-the-world tho, but even then i dont think there would be enough people to make the community last

[Aokiryu89]

It would be like putting a few drops of syrup on a pancake that wasn't even good.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

it would be like shitting on a pile of shit

[Rachis]

It will be like eating the double shit that you thought was chocolate.

[KORTOKtheSTRONG]

is that a regular double shit or the deluxe double shit