Armored Core 5 Discussion

[Griffon]

Griffon can answer that.

 

Haha, thanks.

 

From what I understand is that quads get an accuracy and fire rate boost with cannons opposed to bipeds and RJs.

[Barilzar]

Alright, just tested that out and you are correct. quads do shoot faster and more accurately.

[Harakiri Tiger]

Quads also have a wild amount of stability in general as well as having a wild amount of CE defense on top of the faster refire and higher accuracy. The faster refire and higher accuracy are traits of their stability, though. Their special stability stat only comes into play when you're in a kneeling (spikes in the ground) stance, though.

 

Also, keep in mind that tanks can not Boost Drive (Wall Jump) and therefore have very limited aerial ability and can't access the vertical plane easily. Even though they can QB up to get over terrible terrain they can get trapped in all kinds of bad spots and are very easy to shoot when they try to rise (as well as losing their special grounded turning bonus). This means tanks, while being great with cannons and defense, must sacrifice a large, large portion of their mobility to even exist. Quads don't have to forfeit that, even though they come into the game with a weaker general cannon game and lower defenses.

 

One last definitive trait of quads is that they are easily teh class, outside of tanks, that is best with cannons. This has special significance because tanks with cannons are not allowed to zoom in and use the Scope Magnification statistic on their cannons. This makes sniping with tanks almost impossible. Quads retain the scope on their cannon type weaponry.

 

There are still many reasons for quad use over tank/heavyweight use.

 

I haven't played any missions in the demo yet, I just spent all last night looking at parts and part stats. Haha. I'll go ahead and do the missions tonight and screenshot the mission report screen at the end. I should have it up either tonight or tomorrow night, but the online for the game starts at 7pm later today (central time) so I don't know how much good it'll do you right now. Hahaha. I expect you'll all be online then. I'll try to get screenshots with translations for the three main menus up too. I honestly should have done these translations way back during beta, but I just got really lazy.

 

=3

 

 

 

PS: I only have one thing that I will not translate, and that is the storyline information/events/chat. You'll all just have to wait till it releases in NA/EU for that bit. I found that to a wildly not-enjoyable experience when fA was released last time, haha. I'm sure ACV will have a story that's best experienced in-game anyway. I may or may not translate part description/comments, but I most likely won't. It's simply too much energy considering ACV releases in exactly two months time here in the US.

 

 

EDIT: Did I tell you about that Griffon or did you get it somewhere else? I only remember talking about quads being able to shoot faster in chat, and your not normally in chat cuz of your comp.

[Eternalinventor]

EDIT: Yes, I play inverted controls.

 

[GUARDIANDNL]

that video makes me laugh a lot

[Pendragon]

So from what i see, tanks will be possibly nerfed from their status they had before.

 

I hope they aren't worthless.

[Kashim]

Messing with some tank build ups and from going against the one in the test phase, I can see what yall our talking about nerf wise compared to the older days but i am getting the feeling that what is going to make them really shine is when the multiplayer hits full swing. For example, we still do not know what medley of additional parts and weapons From has in store for us, if i am chasing down some light weight the last thing i'm going to be prepared for is following him around a corner where his big brother is waiting for me with a pair of auto-cannons concealed from my scans cuz of a stealth unit or jammer. Thats just too much dakka in one area.

So I think they will still be the monsters they have always been, its just that we have not seen their full potential yet.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Kashim

[Hoppy]

It's nice to have your AP and boost on the lock circle, because I don't really like going into scan mode in a heated battle.

 

The way you change your weapons is very cool and I like the circular motion of changing weapons.

 

Also having Enemy AP present when you lock on to them in real time is handy as hell.

 

The only drawback is that you still have to use scan mode to see if you are out of ammo, it's a drag to check mid battle.

 

I only did the AC test at 2:30 this morning, I'll get back with any other information later.

[Barilzar]

Rj snipers are wicked shit. I think i prefer it over the quad.

[Fragrant]

I want the leg parts on the mech at 4:24. Looks like a lightweight.

 

[Fukei]

The only drawback is that you still have to use scan mode to see if you are out of ammo, it's a drag to check mid battle.

 

The bars on the top left and right of the circle represent ammo and even have a number show up at the bottom of them for a moment when you fire your guns. I think the bars even flash red when you're almost out and the color shouldn't be there at all when you're completely out. It's not at all difficult to pay attention to ammo this way, and even then, scan mode can be flicked on/off in a split second. Start using cover more or something.

[farmboy28]

The bars on the top left and right of the circle represent ammo and even have a number show up at the bottom of them for a moment when you fire your guns. I think the bars even flash red when you're almost out and the color shouldn't be there at all when you're completely out. It's not at all difficult to pay attention to ammo this way, and even then, scan mode can be flicked on/off in a split second. Start using cover more or something.

Thing is, its hard to see, especially when you got a lot of enemies on screen.

I also noticed this, the computer will tell you when you're down to 30% ammo, and yes, the bar flashes red as well.

Why 30%? I guess its the new 40%

Edited January 20, 2012 by farmboy28

[Aokiryu89]

I feel like...I just played Armored Core.

[incinerator950]

Honestly, I feel comfortable with the controls. Tanks seem normal, minus quick turn. I'm enjoying flight in the RJs, and I like how the Cannons Zoom has horrible turning speed. I'm very pleased that Tanks cannot rapid spam all of the cannons, mainly that Sniper Cannon.

 

I expect Lights to be real Guerrila fighters, Mids to be a fagship, haven't tried Heavy Biped. Next to Heavy RJ's as well as these RJ's being the primary flight Jockies. Quads to be runners, and Tanks to be heavy support, to Tanking distractions and heavy distress.

 

Personally, if you wanted to ask me, I think its a dumbed down AC for the people who are too nostalgic for Armored Core, but fair enough for the 4/FA people to come back and get grips easily. It also feels like a buffer for the Chrome Hound and Fail Mission evolved rejects to come down to.

Edited January 21, 2012 by incinerator950

[Harakiri Tiger]

I find the L-ammo/R-ammo/S-ammo pretty easy to keep track of in most of my fights and I play a pretty hectic style of play, as I'm sure most of the people who watched my justin.tv stream for beta know. I can understand how it can be hard to keep track of though. It may be because I use the pink/purple HUD, too. It makes the white bar easy to read and when your ammo reaches 30% the bar turns permanently red, which stands out on basically any HUD color.

 

The only thing that I normally have to check ammo-wise in Scan Mode is my remaining Recon Units. Either way, get very used to using Scan Mode a lot. If you play any PvP you'll find yourself switching to it very, very often. Especially if you play any sort of strongly mobile PvP. Without Scan Mode to cover energy expenses while moving or to recharge in a fight you'll die super fast. I know that nearly every lightweight pilot has to be able to actively switch between scan/combat mode in the middle of flanking people. It's a pretty basic tenet of ACV play to switch between modes very often, haha

 

-----

 

Ok, so I spent most of yesterday night playing and noticed that something was wrong with my damage output when I tried to score the Speed Kill B subquest in the story mission. That AC did not die to dual pulse guns as fast as he should have died or would have died in the beta. His TE defense is terrible after all. If it were beta he would have taken roughly 2x the listed attack power of the pulse guns in actual AP damage. 6 shot pulse guns with about 800 attack, dual wielded, means that I fire roughly a 9600 point volley. This would then be multiplied by roughly 2x, due to his TE defense, to come out to around 19,000 AP damage in a single pulse gun volley. This is how beta ACV worked and it's how I got used to the game. So I shoot him and he instead takes roughly 9k.

 

Somethings up.

 

Once I finish the mission, I decide to test to see what happened to defenses in the test area. Well. I quickly found out that the potential scaling range has been INCREDIBLY WILDLY DRASTICALLY reduced. It used to be that you'd do anywhere from 0.045x (4.5%) to 2.5x (250%) damage. That means, depending on your target's defense, that you would do between 4.5% to 250% of your weapon's listed attack power as AP damage. It has changed. Now, in the demo, you do anywhere from 0.185x (18.5%) to 0.99x (99%) damage. This is important.

 

We went from a minimum of 4.5% to 18.5%. This means that defense on heavyweights/tanks/etc is worth less now than it was before. Even if you max your defense, you won't be able to reduce damage past 18.5% (as far as I can tell). That's basically a nerf to HWs, not so much tanks since they have enormous averaged defenses and have other traits like moving cannons. It's still a nerf to tanks and quads and heavy bipeds and heavy RJs, tho. It's just more of a nerf to the biped, RJ, and quad than to the tank. The reason this probably happened was because a lot, lot, lot of people in the beta used HWs and tanks. I don't think it was needed, because LW pilots could still get around them and win pretty efficiently. It was just easier to play a HW/Tank when you're new to the game engine.

 

We also went from a maximum of 250% to just 99%. This means that LWs got an ENORMOUS FUCKING BUFF because where they would previously take an extra 151% weapon damage from multiple weapons they now don't. That's not a small buff. Previously LWs could not tank a hit at all, now they can basically tank hits of numerous weapon types easily, especially when compared to beta. You have to understand, they weren't doing badly in the beta at all. Most of the LWs I saw were on the winning side or they were crazy bladers. They were simply underplayed in comparison to the other AC types. Now I too thought that the 250% was a relatively large number and that it should be toned down a bit. I was thinking maybe 200% or 175%, with a minimum of 150% as that would stay true to the neat idea ACV seems to have been built upon.

 

So, in effect, HWs now take roughly 4x more damage from guns they previously tried to gouge against (you couldn't gouge vs all, either) and LWs now take roughly 1/3rd as much damage from guns they were previously severly weak against (you still had one good defense, even in a LW). To put it simply, I do not like this. It feels like it takes far too much of the flavor out of the neat system that was part of the beta. Does this make ACV bad? Hell no, it's still way better than 4/fA, hahahaha. It just went too far. I was all in favor of a system that was closer to 10%-150%, though I liked the more extreme idea of 5%-250% as well. It gave distinction to the game. Raw flavor.

 

To summarize my feelings, I will try to quote myself from yesterday night when I found this data out with testing and told Action Bastard about it.

 

Niji: It wouldn't suck so much.

Niji: If I had never experienced beta.

Niji: Cuz now I feel like I had a cake taken from me and replaced with a few cupcakes.

Niji: You wouldn't normally complain about getting free cupcakes.

Niji: But someone took my cake.

Niji: =

 

I feel bad for all the people that didn't get to experience ACV with the older system, as I think it was a very unique and interesting experience. I also feel bad for telling so many people about the 5%-250% system (and hyping it up), only to have the actual game release with a totally watered down version of it. It's still drastic compared to all previous AC games. There's no other AC game where you take 18.5% to 99% damage depending on defense. I just can't help feeling that it was severly watered down.

 

 

 

 

PS: I have those screenshots for the major menus and the mission complete screen taken and with me here at work, so I'll work on adding those to the ACV Setup Guide topic real soon. I just felt I had to write this stuff out first.

[incinerator950]

Illuminating information.

 

I was actually hoping that Tanks would be balanced, not easy. Contrary to what I've said in ACFA (in game so no one cares), I've disliked the concept of Superior tanks. I like working for kills, but I like fair balance for everything.

 

Just that the mobility gave me something to do in 4/FA that I wouldn't or couldn't do in 1-NB.

[Aokiryu89]

They might rebalance it before they release it internationally. Sounds like they just went a little too extreme with solving the issue the Beta had. You did mention there was worry over the usefulness of shotguns. Plus there's always patches. Edited January 21, 2012 by Ogawa Lou

[Harakiri Tiger]

Shotguns were kinda strange, for sure. They either raped someone or didn't do anything, but that's more a result of their optimal+falloff in most scenarios and the other major scenario was vs MW ACs. MW ACs have relatively high KE defense naturally, so shotguns had a hard time against them as expected. Shotguns have notoriously low optimal range, meaning their damage begins dropping off at very close ranges. On top of that they have terrible decay rates (falloff), which is the range increment their damage decays over. Smaller number in decay rates means they lose power faster.

 

The thing is ACV was built to make sure that nothing was decent vs everything, but rather great vs some things, decent vs some things, and terrible vs some things. It means that every part has a general niche/purpose that it's feasibly useful in and whose tier sort of rides on the metagame design trend rather than just one part/category/build being the archetypal core of the game. It basically gives more room for metagame evolution with the old system over the course of numerous years.

 

EDIT: I finished fixing up the ACV Setup Guide topic with more pictures and screenshots. It took overly long since I kept getting interupted here at work by people who are dumb.

[incinerator950]

Can you get the guide to show out how to set up multiplayer? We're just randomly hitting buttons and some kid somehow got the right Invasion mission.

[The Fallen Raven]

Yeah I started playing the demo a few minutes ago and I couldn't figure out how to get to multiplayer so I did the Story mission instead.

So there is a subquest for killing the AC before he runs away? I thought he just ran away after a certain amount of damage was dealt.

[Bakuhatsu Pengin]

the defense modifiers in beta were ridiculous to begin with

im glad they reduced its effectiveness

 

it feels like theres less en than there was in beta

 

and shotguns are so buff now

[Red Shirt (Grayscale)]

Thanks for the additional translations, Niji! If only you had a goat fetish, I'd be able to pay you back easily!

[Hoppy]

Although they most likely will be all you need in many missions due to high ammo and power, autocannon usage is strongly discouraged in story missions because unlike AC4/FA you will lose money in seconds if you use them, however they do tear grunts to shreds and ACs as well. Used them on the story mission and although I beat it no problem, 90% of the profits were eaten away by them and I ended up with only a little over 900 Au profit.

[incinerator950]

Agreed, I went through the same thing works great on a Tank, but it eats credits. Also the time difference is better.

I have a rough gestimate that the Campaign is about High profile, medium to Mid-Lights that move fast enough but have enough defense to not lose the portion of health needed to S rank.

 

Here's a question, does it matter more to go for priority kills or just go for groups of enemies to get the bonuses?

 

Demo's Online server is down, looks to be maintenance.

[farmboy28]

Agreed, I went through the same thing works great on a Tank, but it eats credits. Also the time difference is better.

I have a rough gestimate that the Campaign is about High profile, medium to Mid-Lights that move fast enough but have enough defense to not lose the portion of health needed to S rank.

 

Here's a question, does it matter more to go for priority kills or just go for groups of enemies to get the bonuses?

 

Demo's Online server is down, looks to be maintenance.

Server should be back up in 20 minutes.