Armored Core 5 Discussion

[GodlyPerfection]

I'm not trying to say that my style is strictly better than yours. I'm pointing out that a Higher Cap style would play better in a back pedaling metagame. With the heavy buff to RJ jumping and rifles it looks to be like it will be much more powerful than in previous games as well as the ability to OB backwards. Not only that with Scan Mode to make up for low output, and the fact that cover on maps is actually back then there is a good chance Higher Cap gens will be more useful in a variety of situations. High Out gens are great for open space, but when you have the ability to sit behind cover here and there the Higher Cap gens start to look more promisable. In general I would agree with High Outs, but with factors like the environment, jammers, scan mode, back pedaling potential, etc. the Higher Caps start to look much better.

 

And if I remember correctly with the interference being so low on High Outs they will have less EN output when in a jammer... by a decent amount.

[Ultibreaker]

I agree with what exo said. In short words what he's trying to say is that just because of the jammers, you don't neccerally have to switch your whole style which in some cases a particular style is using HO gen maximize your movement. Yeah HC gen allow you to whore QB a little longer (3-4 more QB's on max EN than a HO gen at max), but it's on how you play. The addition to Gen jammers was just added or better yet became more relavent, so yeah I do kind of see the importance of choosing gen wisely according to an opponent. Then again you really can't counter pick cause half of the time you won't know what your up against. I think Godly your basing your argument on the fact that you prefer to play with HC and it just happens that it's important and (opinion wise) wisely to be protected against gen jammers. You mentioned you need HC for your "aggressive" type of game play. Check this guy out...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYDGfUWPoO8

 

It seems that he has HO gen which allowed him to regen to max within like 5sec and allowed him to "continue" aggression type game style. This is what Exo argues. And in the case of gen jammer the only thing actually protecting him from that jammer is skills. The ability to recognize or identify a potential threat. Put it like this, to conclude this whole HC vs HO debate. If you are very skillful (which trust me Exo is, ask Niji or anyone that played against him), you will be ok either way. Your chances of victory will not be determined by which type of gen you use but more like how well you use it.......FIN

[GodlyPerfection]

I get where you guys are coming from... I was a High Out gen user during the online portion of the demo and I was in past games as well. I'm just saying based on all the additional factors High Caps are starting to look like they will be better overall in most situations.

 

For that video you posted I'm glad you like it. Because that is the SONNE High Cap gen that I use in the demo and that I have been vouching for. I have been following that particular player religiously on nicovideo. He started out using High Out gens for the first 8 videos of his series and switched at part 9. The video above is Part 12... after his many many matches, he changed from High Out to High Cap because it was much more effective to use for GB/HB gameplay. The more GB you incorporate the more ideal High Caps become and GB is great for CQC in this game for keeping a high average speed. Like you said... it takes him like 5 sec to fully regen to max despite using a High Cap... is running a High Out really necessary to cut that time by a second or two? This was the point I was trying to make... with scan mode High Caps don't really have much of a disadvantage if you are spending most of your time in Scan Mode.

 

Here is his video playlist for reference. I have been following this guy closely as he is a very skilled CQC player and has the most experience with it from what I've seen (well most experience that captures video lol). So I trust in this guys' decision to switch from High Out to High Cap... it was what actually inspired me in the first place to try it out.

http://www.nicovideo...mylist/30269993

 

 

EDIT: Nevermind... it isn't part 12. I'm looking up now to see if this was before or after his generator change. Regardless he did end up switching to High Cap after a while.

 

EDIT 2: Yeah that was actually the video right before he switched to High Cap so ignore most of that top part. This was one of the videos where he was perfecting GB/HB and realized how much more effective High Cap would be and starting use SONNE as an experiement and stuck with it for the next 6 or so videos. Watch that guys later videos after part 8 when he switches to SONNE.

Edited March 6, 2012 by GodlyPerfection

[Harakiri Tiger]

I'm not sure what to say. It's like you completely ignored every word in the post of mine that you quoted. Either way, it's not my concern which generator type you choose to use. If you think you're going to survive generator jammers with a HO generator then that is your prerogative.

[GodlyPerfection]

LW's, which would realistically be the only builds, save for runners and snipers and a few miscellaneous builds, to be running high output gens, are going to be moving fast, and if played correctly, should be covering allot of ground in a short amount of time.

 

So I went back to read your argument against Niji's and noticed this comment. What makes you think that LWs will "realistically be the only builds" save for a few others?

[Ultibreaker]

The only thing you guys are doing is pretty much telling everyone on this forum that uses HO gen to stop using them because of this and that. When I first read nijis post I thought "dang I guess I'll try HC or BT gen". And judging by what you guys are saying I guess your "aggressiveness" remains, but...still kind of downgrades the HO gen to like almost unusable. I really can't believe those smart f***ks in FromSoftware were that stupid to negate it that obvious where it'll be stupid to run HO like Niji stated. Soooooo if they did keep it in the game, it's safe to say that those smart f***ks in Fromsoftware have a specific type of audience for HO gen which if used to it's maximum capacity (Exogen) will mostlikely make it look....................usable

[Harakiri Tiger]

I doubt it.

[Red Shirt (Grayscale)]

@ Exo:

 

TL;DR, at that time sorry. In any case, your # 5 argument suggests about recovering EN to an accepted amount after escaping from somebody else; yes, that is possible. Acting quickly on your situation might save you, but your chances are still low after that. Not to mention they will most likely switch your playstyle for that match from offensive to defensive as well, giving your opponent more opportunity to harass and manipulate you.

 

Anyway, while jammed, HB is your only way out afaik. The main problem with jamming is its ability to negate your movement and boost speed to somewhere around 1 except for HB, but having no EN regen and supply due to the low jamming resist (because you will be always jammed; blame the resist stat) will most likely restrict you from doing that. Of course it won't be instantly 0 EN, but HB or not, you're going to run out of energy due to the low cap.

 

The point in of PROCHNYI or any high-resist gen is that when you backtrack/escape, your EN gets restored quickly as well because of its jamming resistance; they can rinse and repeat as much as they want, but that won't mean you'll always get yourself jammed from thereon, so you can trade two guns with them while they're just wielding one weapon. At least with that, you could either flank him around and stick on the offensive. With HO gens, it's almost constant that you'll get drained either way due to the much lower jam resist. PROCHNYI has like, the output of most HO gens; if not, even higher than most (save for Vital), and has about x2 cap size. It's up to you anyway.

 

I have one thing in mind though; in order to fully understand this one, we'll need to know whether jamming resistance affects the degree of the energy being taken, or if it's simply constant and just due to the smaller cap of HO generators in general.

 

 

 

@ noob:

 

Midweights humanoids are your standard legs as always, then there's the LW class for the usual lower def/higher mobility thing. Heavyweight humanoid legs have this sort of HUEG damage reduction when at the front while kneeling. For those who have the demo, you can try it out on the tank and kneel in front of it while checking your AP. They also kick hard, literally. Then there's the RJ class. I'm not sure about LWs, but the HW RJs are the legs next to the quad's sniping abilities; quads still have superior firing rate and accuracy when using a kneeling weapon, but are less mobile than RJs though. Tanks, on the other hand can use two kneeling weapons at the same time, but you won't be able to zoom in.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Red Shirt (Grayscale)

[exogen]

I'm not trying to say that my style is strictly better than yours. I'm pointing out that a Higher Cap style would play better in a back pedaling metagame. With the heavy buff to RJ jumping and rifles it looks to be like it will be much more powerful than in previous games as well as the ability to OB backwards. Not only that with Scan Mode to make up for low output, and the fact that cover on maps is actually back then there is a good chance Higher Cap gens will be more useful in a variety of situations. High Out gens are great for open space, but when you have the ability to sit behind cover here and there the Higher Cap gens start to look more promisable. In general I would agree with High Outs, but with factors like the environment, jammers, scan mode, back pedaling potential, etc. the Higher Caps start to look much better.

 

And if I remember correctly with the interference being so low on High Outs they will have less EN output when in a jammer... by a decent amount.

 

This is all speculation and I even said this in so many words in my intial post. You could be correct, but I could raise cases that say the opposite. Then again, those would be based on previous AC games, which AC5 isn't. I never wanted to argue about the posiblity of high output generators being worthless because of a backpedaling metagame but rather to have a fun debate about the posiblity of these jammers really being so important as to rule out a whole gen class. The argument itself was never meant to be a say-all-end-all debate.

 

Consider this my final word on the matter. As far as I can see thus far, the game supports multiple styles. I don't discount your style and see reasons why my style can deal with backpedalers. The generator jammer argument is a separate, but nonetheless indirectly related argument. All I wanted was to deal with that discussion, which I barely got a total of two paragraphs out of everyone in response to what I said.

 

Bottom line is that if we really want to get technical, no one is in ANY position to say anything for certain about what is high tier, broken or w/e because the game has not been out long enough for anyone to know for sure what is what. Anyone who knows anything about the development of tier lists and such kinds of rankings knows that a game needs at least something reasonable timeline to have a clear idea of what is what. ACV has not even been released yet so wtf. Anyone who disagrees with this statement knows nothing about competitive communities and I'm not going to waste my time in explaining it.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against you personally, but I won’t sit here and turn this into a debate about style in response to some speculation on the possibility of a backpedaling metagame, when my initial argument had nothing to do with that.

 

I'm not sure what to say. It's like you completely ignored every word in the post of mine that you quoted. Either way, it's not my concern which generator type you choose to use. If you think you're going to survive generator jammers with a HO generator then that is your prerogative.

 

 

 

You didn't adress me directly but I'm guessing that this post was intended for me being that I am the only one that recently quoted you about the jammers and HO gens.

 

Evidently you seem to think that I don't understand the argument you gave. I thought I had summarized your argument correctly. Perhaps I don't understand your argument, but that is why I explicitly said at the onset that this was based on my understanding of what you said, being that I don't have the game in front of me. I went out of my way to make it clear that I was being as humble and civil as possible. You made a blanket statement calling people dumb for using HO gens out of nowhere and all I did was respond with a respectful and well thought-out post, to the best of my ability, and given the information at my disposal. You didn't even make any attempt to correct my evidently flawed interpretation of your post. My post proceded on the assumption that I understood your argument.

 

The fact that I took the time to summarize your post, and then write multiple paragraphs illustrates that I took the time to try and understand you. I deserve a bit more respect.

 

I am pointing out that your stat knowledge doesn't necessarily mean that you have the final conclusion on things because there could be many in game variables that you, or I for that matter, don't understand.

 

With that said,

 

Tiers are impossible to tell from the onset of a game. Case in point; SF4 M.Bison was judged as high tier only to be listed as mid to low by the time SSF4 came out depending on what list you look at. Anyone who has competitive experience or follows the competitive scene understands that even if you are correct about some judgment, it is impossible to know what the tiers are in any game when it first comes out.

 

You made a blanket statement about people who use HO gens based on an argument about Gen Jammers. Your argument, even if correct, is speculative at best because the game has not been out long enough to make a judgment to the degree where one would be “dumb” to use it. You’re in no position to make that call. Even if you are correct it is purely haphazard and luck because there is no way for you to know all the variables involved here.

My post already assumed a level of humility, as I said. I merely wanted to have a fun debate on the subject, not turn this into a pissing contest.

So yeah, I guess we will see what part or style in inferior in the end. I could care less because I always play to win, and most of the time do win.

 

So I went back to read your argument against Niji's and noticed this comment. What makes you think that LWs will "realistically be the only builds" save for a few others?

 

This is irrelevant to the arguments I gave. This is not the meat and potatos of what I was saying.

Edited March 6, 2012 by exogen

[GodlyPerfection]

This is irrelevant to the arguments I gave. This is not the meat and potatos of what I was saying.

 

I was just curious as to what brought you to that speculation.

Edited March 6, 2012 by GodlyPerfection

[Harakiri Tiger]

No, you didn't read the post and you definitely didn't summarize it. You explicitly ignored about 90% of it. You even made statements that claimed to not know what jammer resistance is on generators (a key part of my post and the numbers and percentages presented in it), you have posted as though HC gens are the only other option to HO gens, then you said that you think all generators probably have the same output when jammed when my post explicitly demonstrates that that is not true. Read through the post again and do the math for the numbers presented, it's very simple math at even the most complex points.

 

You basically ignored the geniune content of my post because you don't like the idea of HO generators being called bad. You also took offense to a non-issue for you. You are not part of the players who have to deal with generator jammers or the environment they are in, therefore your use of a HO generator is void to my post. I don't care if you use a HO generator when you're just playing around in the single player demo. They're fine without jammers around, even if they're heavy. You don't even have a reason to be defending your choice of generator.

 

You can, of course, post your speculations on the board to discuss with others, but responding to my post with those speculations while ignoring the content of my post and claiming to have read and summarized it is pretty disrespectful in and of itself. I have no reason to grace you with some kind of in-depth response and you do not deserve more respect when you only offered pretend respect. Posting a lot of words and pretending to understand the topic material is not respect. Asking questions first about the things in the post you didn't understand or know about (like generator jammer resistance), getting a reply, then coming up with some kind of argument about the material would have been respectful. This was not. It was just a lot of speculation and I don't have the energy to bother with it.

 

I do not owe my time to people and I especially am not going to waste that much time responding to speculation, especially when you go out of your way to ignore the content that I've already provided for you.

 

By far the best argument presented about continued use of HO generators was Sniper's, where he simply stated that he just doesn't come across generator jammers all that much.

 

 

 

EDIT: Pissing contest, huh. You are in far less of a position to be making any calls on ACV than I am.

 

I was in the beta and I was in the demo for its online portion and I know the results of what happened in both of those times in ACV history when generator jammers were brought into the match. It was suicide to go into any match with a HO generator. The defending team using jammer turrets completely demolished the invading teams in every match to the point of FROM SOFTWARE adding an emergency balance patch in the 360 beta to adjust how strongly the turrets affected people, because defender's advantage was so strong. This was regardless of the generator they were using. In the demo Chode and I won every single 2v5 we were in with more than 90% AP remaining while defending because I placed jammer turrets on our map, and this was after the nerf that occured in beta. I am quite definitely in the position to say that using a HO generator during the beta and demo were suicide because the geniune results backed me up on it, to the point of an emergency patch. I did not need to speculate. I know what happened, you clearly do not and you did not even take the time to ask.

 

My "speculation" about HO generators is based on real results in the game and the current metagame, unlike your speculation which is nothing other than assumption. Until the geniune results in the game change and people start finding ways around generator jammer turrets when invading, especially with HO gens, I will not assume that HO gens are a sane choice. As it stands taking territory from people who are abusing generator jammer turrets and other incredibly buff equipment and parts is nearly impossible for everyone, which is why the entire world map keeps getting divided into the territory of just two teams after each reset and entering a huge stalemate in land control.

 

To put it most simply... You can take your pointless optimistic speculation and shove it until you can produce real results out of the game. I'm just fucking reporting on the game state, dumbass. At least I provided real fucking numbers instead of pure assumptions. I wasn't taking guesses at the future game state either. I'm not the one trying to predict the future. You are.

 

I don't know what'll happen with the future metagame and I don't know what FROM SOFTWARE will change with the game, but for now HO is not the way to go. Especially if you're not stupid enough to create a false dichotomy of HO vs HC. Guess what I and many other sane players use? BA.

[Mushinronja]

Made a sniper CQC mech after watching one of Godly's vids a while back. Also fiddling around with a roxio game capture thingamajig, and I can safely say the quality isn't great (best when watched on youtube with the large player screen imo).

 

http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=LmBK7pkO9Zg (don't want to have giant screen here)

 

 

I wonder how they could balance HO gens? Maybe make them add damage to energy weapons or have them cost less (though it may end up being equivalent to the amout you have left over when using them with a high cap)? Maybe switch the resistances and have the HO ones be more resistant to Jammers, idk.

[exogen]

Niji,

 

 

It’s funny everyone thinks you’re a chick because you make it a point to make people think that you are. I know for a fact that you are a dude, but this makes me reconsider insofar as your flipping on me here makes me only think of three letters....PMS.

 

Ha ha, that was of course...a joke.

 

But,

 

Seriously wtf is wrong with you?

 

If you did not have time to respond to speculation then you should have never responded at all because I said from the beginning that what I was posting was speculation based on the understanding of your post that I had. And just for the record, Ultibreaker has obviously read your post and I read the post to Pete in voice chat. In fact Ulti was on the phone with me when I read it for the first time. We went over it to see if we understood you, then I went over it by myself again and that was before I read it to Bato. Both of them had the same conclusion I did, so it is unfair to say that I did not read the post or make an effort to understand it. Also, are they disrespectful too for having the same opinion? Or is it me because I made a post when I knowingly and publicly stated that I was aware my understanding could be flawed but I was proceeding on that assumption?

 

It’s ridiculous that you would even try to say that what I said was in any way disrespectful. Your claim is that I don't know what I am talking about in regards to your argument; that I don't understand the argument you gave. That might be true, but I never denied that that might be the case. My understanding the argument correctly or not is a claim about my comprehension and understanding, which was nothing necessairly to do with effort or intention and hence nothing necessairly to do with respect or disrespect. I went into this discussion by being aware that I might not have understood you because I don't have the game in front of me! Anyone would admit that this is fair to say. The fact that Ulti and Bato think as I do about your post doesn't exactly say that your post really is so fucking clear. But alas I guess all three of us must be disrespectful idiots anyways with no credibility.

 

Really, trying to say that I was being disrespectful is laughable. I said from the start that what I was saying was speculative, so, if entertaining speculation is something you don't have time for as you say, then you should not have bothered to jump in at any point here even to say what you did. You decided to get into the discussion (not the debate( at one point when you ought to, according to your own rationale of "not having time" should have stayed silent and let GodlyPerfection and the rest of us talk about this.

 

I see also how you did not respond to what I said either about the facts about how tier lists and game knowledge develops. You know as well as I do that discussion at this point is going to be speculative anyways even if we did have the game in front of us and had some online experience under our belts. Even if I knew the game as you do I would be in no position to make any absolute judgments now. That's why your whole argument is a joke if you want to try and take it "serious" insofar as generator jammers are "serious shit." Please, as if your some god who knows for sure what AC5 will really be about in six months. Just like you knew I was a noob and how flanking didn't exist in AC4 and then I scraped you and you found out otherwise. How do you know what will be on top six months from now? You have no absolute way of saying what will be what, hence your entire post is speculative, even if more informed, and perhaps more accurate than mine.

 

I really don't understand wtf has gotten into you. Also don’t worry because I have no intention of continuing this debate. As of now, I'm out. If you have something to say to me, bring it to me in voice chat on PSN instead of hiding behind the forum. If you bother to post something on here, or erase my post on the grounds that it is derailing the thread, you would have lost every ounce of respect in my book. You called me out on this shit in your last post so don't do me the injustice of erasing this or portions of it when I have just stated that I will not be posting again on this topic, and probably not on this thread, and maybe even on this site. Do me that one favor. Like I said, if you think I have disrespected you then bring this charge to my face on PSN. I concider you a friend and I see no reason why I can't call you out in person being that you have openly stated that I disrespected you. Intially all I was taking issue with you making a blanket statement and calling people dumb, but now you have turned this into something it never had to be. If you have ever called yourself my friend then you will hit me up and we will see what is what, if not, then you know what it is.

[Rachis]

Saying your argument is speculation is not a proper scapegoat when trying to undermine facts.

[Pendragon]

Let's try to get on a more.. friendly topic, shall we?

 

I've been reading up on some of the Overed Weapons, and I hear that the fire chainsaw thing was supposedly inferior in every way to the giant club weapon. Is that true?

 

Does that make the cool fire chainsaw nothing more than a novelty weapon?

[Aokiryu89]

It seems the main advantage the Grind Blade has is an automatic lunge similar to the automatic boost that occured with blading in the older games. On that note I don't mind using it myself since it does appear to be the weakest of the OW.

 

It's like a duel. The first man to hit could be the winner or end up leaving himself open to the opponent's attack. In the case of Grind Blade Vs. Mass Blade.

 

I'd say it's best to let the MB strike first then go in for the kill.

 

 

 

Ah yes I need that list of leg advantages. I wouldn't be so annoying about it but I swear it's haunting me in my sleep. And I'm more in favor of 2 v 2 combat more than ever now.

 

I need breakfast.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Ogawa Lou

[Moon Walker]

I'm guessing the lightweight and quick charge up is its advantage... That and I'd definitely prefer lunging at enemies covered in grimly orange light than with a giant hammer.

 

Speaking of which, if noone intends on taking up OWs into battle then I'll have to include them into the Misc. Weaponaries that I'll be playing around with.

[Aokiryu89]

It's nice to know that the OWs are more practical than I first thought they were going to be. Been browsing some vids. That Damn Huge Cannon has got some Radius.

 

Youtube channel Blue9Ball, this guy all but religiously uses the weapon.

 

2:57

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKxQC46BtRk&feature=related

Edited March 6, 2012 by Ogawa Lou

[Ultibreaker]

So I was thinking, we should start a thread where we each post our time zones and info so we can sort of get an availability understanding of each other. Exp-

 

PSN- Ultibreaker

Time Zone- EST USA

Mic- Yes

Available- Mon-Fri-11am-1:30pm & 1am-3am

Sat & Sun- 3pm-2am

Language- Bilingual (Spanish & English)

 

 

 

Most of us in here are planning on forming a team or joining a team, ether way chances are you'll probably be in a team. Seeing how that is the case in this game why don't we do this. Please be proactive and demanding on this topic. With enough demand we might just make it happen here amongs us in ACU. Ok here I go...

 

It's should be without a doubt that we are here in ACV to compete or unite and co operatively play the game. With that much said why don't we make (here in ACU) a league where we compete against each other (team based) and challenge one another (1vs1). This is a rough idea on how the team based league should work, also please post your feedback on how you would like the league to be. Thank you...

 

Season- Consist of 3 months 12 games per team.

Games- Consist of 1 Team based (5vs5) per week.

Rank- Your team will be ranked according to victories within Division

Division- 2 teams within a Division (depending on the amount of teams that are willing to participate)

Post Season- Depending on amount of divisions (participants), 1 representative team (best ranked) from each division.

S(#)TC- This is the championship, it's named depending on what number season you are in; exp, S4TC (Season 4 Team Championship). I'm pretty sure you guys can come up with some creative stuff for the S#TC.

[GodlyPerfection]

I look forward to seeing the ACU 360 branch on the battlefield. Our team Irrelephancy is ready. lol...

[Mushinronja]

PSN- Mushinronja

Time Zone- EST USA

Mic- Yes

Available-

- Monday - Not really till 9-10 pm

- Tuesday - 11 am on

- Wednesday - Either 5ish or 8-9-10ish

-Thursday - 11 am on

- Friday - Anytime

- Saturday - Anytime

- Sunday - Anytime

(I need a job)

Language- English

[Harakiri Tiger]

I'll be buying a 360 and NA ACV for it as soon as possible and starting up an ACU team on that side too, but ACU team is open to everyone to join so I don't know just how competitive it'll be overall. Maybe we can organize one of the wings or the core team to house only the really competitive players on it, but I just don't know how many 360 players will honestly join the 360 ACU team. If I can't get a 360 by release I'll probably see if I can get someone to create a placeholder team or lead the team for me on 360 side.

[Nomrah]

I want to make an Anti-CQC AC, what sort of load out would be suggested to smack fuckers hard in the face for getting too close? What are some good hard hitting guns, anything like a spread shot bazooka? Something that will make my opponent wince when I'm staring them down. I'm thinking of like a mid-weight RJ possibly utilizing a kneeling cannon of some sort. RJ's my roots, although I barely used them past AC2, gotta fix that.

[GodlyPerfection]

I want to make an Anti-CQC AC, what sort of load out would be suggested to smack fuckers hard in the face for getting too close? What are some good hard hitting guns, anything like a spread shot bazooka? Something that will make my opponent wince when I'm staring them down. I'm thinking of like a mid-weight RJ possibly utilizing a kneeling cannon of some sort. RJ's my roots, although I barely used them past AC2, gotta fix that.

 

RJ's have terrible turning ability and a good CQC player will take advantage of that. For weapons sniper rifles, bazookas, high impact missiles, etc. Look for weapons that stun... preferably CE/TE based as LWs are KE-Resistant. And back pedal, back pedal, back pedal... learn to GB backwards efficiently. Learn the maps so you know when it is effective to GB backwards. Also try to stay in open areas... letting a CQC player utilize cover to get to you unharmed is a terrible thing. RJs can be nice for the vertical distance you can place between yourself and your opponent so on more vertical maps with a bunch of buildings to jump off of for the turning bonus an RJ should do fine.

[Nomrah]

Thanks for the helpful intel, I will think on this. Sky-scraper jumping sounds cool, I'll go for that high spot for some possible kneeling action, then when they're onto me I'll dive in and deliver some stunning blows then head to my next vantage point, I can picture it now...