Polteg Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) "The Sky is Falling chicken Little!" No its not, its just raining, RAINING ROBOT DEATH MACHINES! Ok all silliness aside, just want to extend a hardy handshake to all you peeps here at ACU on behalf of some old fuddy duddies from where i come from, 2old2play. The knowledge you already have on ACV is inspirational. I know it was a great concern to some of your members that there would be a lack of community with which to play. I can't promise you PS3 guys anything but rest assured Xbox dudes and dudettes we at 2o2p will do our part to field as many competitive teams as possible among the geriatric and eccentric, older community. We may not be able to move our thumbs very fast due to the rheumatism but our grips are steely and our intent is to destroy. It might take awhile for our old Ac's to fire up but rest assured its your souls we want, for it’s the only thing that can satisfy Deaths ever constant visits upon our doors. So we have 2 teams so far and if the lurkers in other games on our site is any indication I imagine a couple weeks after the game drop we may even have 2 more. So farewell for now I shall return in the future and would endeavour upon that occasion to make a play date between our communities. A gesture to ensure a free spirited and communicative/competitive friendly atmosphere in our game. The game. ACV. Or........ since I am sooooo old I may infact forget........ In that case I will apologize up front. Sorry. I really mean it. Edited March 1, 2012 by Polteg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katya Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Ultibreaker, I'm going to third what others have said and say that 1 on 1 matches will not be the best way to judge a players skill in a team based game. My years spent playing FreeAllegiance has all too clearly shown me that. I'd see all too many times players who'd think they were hot stuff refuse to do what the commander (basically operator role) wanted them to do because the player thought that scouting/reprobing/defending bombers/guarding the miners was "boring" or some such garbage like that. Most times they weren't even good pilots to begin with, let alone good team players. Then you also get into how well do people work together and just a whole bunch of stuff. I don't think the idea of breaking up a team just to be in the "top competitive" team is a good one. Teams work best when the people have been working together so long and so well that they know where the other people are and what they are doing without having to even think about it. Don't forget to scrap the rust off of your ACs Polteg! Or is that cammo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodlyPerfection Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 4v4 is overdoing it in my honest opinion. There's too much stuff exploding onscreen for you to judge or tell anything apart. 2v2, however, would be perfect. It would show how teams work together, like you said. I'm all for it. I believe as time goes on 4v4 will definitely be fine. You are able to run scrimmages with your team. 5v5 would actually even be possible to see how players work with their operators as well. At first it will be a bit chaotic, but in organized team games both sides are cautious to make a move and gameplay is much more calm and focused. 2v2 definitely works for the game's early phases since you also have to rely on enough people showing up. lol... As for you Polteg, my crew looks forward to meeting you on the field as well. And I look forward to friend competition between all our teams. It will be a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aokiryu89 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Friendly? SCREW THAT I'll TEAR HIM APART AND EAT HIM MYSELF!! Seriously though I'm a very flexible guy if anyone needs a void to be filled I will do my best to fill it. Except for long range sniping, that's going to require some serious training on my part and well the demo isn't going to cut it. I'll try to use more weapons in the demo though. Starting to get used to drive boosting as well, that's really turning out be useful even on flat ground. Anyone still having trouble with energy management should seriously consider working more drive boost techniques into their maneuvering. (Especially when utilizing the MG Lasers and making up for the energy regeneration that balance and high capacity type Gens lack over the High Output ones.) This really is turning out to be a nice fusion of old school and new school armored core. (Yeah I got the idea from watching the JP vids.) I'm pretty sure most of everyone has already known this but this is just for those who haven't been watching the vids or do not have the demo. I apologize if this has already been pointed out though OTL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultibreaker Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 The more I think about it the more the 1vs1 do sound a little off. I like the whole 4vs4 idea where as the best team will get the spot as "Top team of the month". But that's it. I can't imagine having a different team every month. But then again as a whole unit working together that would be ok seeing how it'll be nice to work with everyone in the team(20). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harakiri Tiger Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 1v1 is not properly supported by this game's engine (i.e. mechanics and balance). AC leg classes and weight types are all designed as hard counters to other AC leg classes and weight types rather than soft counters. To facilitate a proper 1v1 in ACV you have to implement some serious bans into the game or your results will be highly erratic. It's best to think of it like this: each leg class available is a hard counter to two other leg classes, is about even with two other leg classes, and is hard countered by two other leg classes. There are seven leg classes, so it works out pretty well like that. If you want to test player skill a few 3v3s are probably best and most efficient to run. One operator on each side and two players, with the person you're testing filling whichever role he or she wants to be accepted for. 2+1vs2+1 is normally a very stable matchup as there isn't enough power to just charge in, but there's an abundance of information to defend with and make informed choices off of. 2+1vs2+1 only really goes haywire when someone tries to suicide rush someone else. You can also be a bit more fair on new guys and make it a D2vsA2+1 match (D = Defenders, A = Attackers). In a match like that, the defenders will have their homebase turrets to help them while the attackers have an operator. Operators are basically required for proper invasion, so there is no way any remotely legitimate team will reach high rankings without one once the game has been out for a while. This is a bit easier than the D2+1vsA2+1 setup, as the defenders also get turrets while matching the attackers team size in that setting. Basically, a few 2v3s or 3v3s are probably best for testing player skill. I wasn't really paying attention to the 1v1 discussion up until now, though I was reading it. My brain was mostly in automod mode, haha. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurus Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 didn't see some schematic from anyone yet. I guess it's still hard to posted some design here. (I'm waitin' for ACV NA version instead.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aokiryu89 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 1v1 is not properly supported by this game's engine (i.e. mechanics and balance). AC leg classes and weight types are all designed as hard counters to other AC leg classes and weight types rather than soft counters. To facilitate a proper 1v1 in ACV you have to implement some serious bans into the game or your results will be highly erratic. It's best to think of it like this: each leg class available is a hard counter to two other leg classes, is about even with two other leg classes, and is hard countered by two other leg classes. There are seven leg classes, so it works out pretty well like that. If you want to test player skill a few 3v3s are probably best and most efficient to run. One operator on each side and two players, with the person you're testing filling whichever role he or she wants to be accepted for. 2+1vs2+1 is normally a very stable matchup as there isn't enough power to just charge in, but there's an abundance of information to defend with and make informed choices off of. 2+1vs2+1 only really goes haywire when someone tries to suicide rush someone else. You can also be a bit more fair on new guys and make it a D2vsA2+1 match (D = Defenders, A = Attackers). In a match like that, the defenders will have their homebase turrets to help them while the attackers have an operator. Operators are basically required for proper invasion, so there is no way any remotely legitimate team will reach high rankings without one once the game has been out for a while. This is a bit easier than the D2+1vsA2+1 setup, as the defenders also get turrets while matching the attackers team size in that setting. Basically, a few 2v3s or 3v3s are probably best for testing player skill. I wasn't really paying attention to the 1v1 discussion up until now, though I was reading it. My brain was mostly in automod mode, haha. Sorry. Ah, 2v3 does sound like the best option. The opposing team would be a pair who are very much used to working together and it would test the "Trainee's" ability to follow Operator commands. Consequently leaving the judging of the Trainee's capabilities primarily toward the party who's job is to observe the combat performance of a full 5 man squad. That does sounds sort of like a luxury though, but if we get enough Double Trouble pairs it would be very efficient indeed. On the other hand I don't know if giving a new guy such a challenge is too much of a challenge? This may work nicely for assessing the skill of prospective Operators as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polteg Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 2vs3 with op sounds like a favourable idea with two defenders as officials as well as the op, attackers being 2 recruits. But is very time consuming. If at anytime you have a large number of recruits you need a faster way in which to wittle down preferable candidates. A suggestion pertaining to large numbers of candidates. Have them compete as 5vs5 teams, with evaluating officials as ops. Have them compete perhaps twice with 2 seperate evaluating ops. Grade each applying candidate. Would make preliminary dissmissals easy and fast. Also make applying for "Blue" or "Red" team completely voluntary. You don't want members of your fine community to feel forced into performing the "Trials". Also allow any member who volunteers the right to compete at the "Trials" regardless of percieved skill and allow any member who has failed a previous "Trial" the right to apply and compete again in the future if they have fullfilled an obligated cooldown period of; just a suggestion here but 3 months sounds reasonable. Simply some kind hearted suggestions from an interested third party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushinronja Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 How about 2 or 3 regulars hiring one recruit as a mercenary to do missions and stuff and see how they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aokiryu89 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 That could work too, I think the whole training set up, would be valid for players who are already in the team. This could work as a honing of team synergy when you got someone you don't usually work with but wish to improve without the risk of loosing a territory to none affiliates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Walker Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm probably going to be the odd one in anyone's team. I like playing with misc. Weapons ( sentries, cannons on biped, blades/laser blades, jammers etc. ) Otherwise I'm most like a rapid fire maniac with chainguns and ( OH HELL YES for EN MGs!!! ) Machine pulse guns. I still shudder at the fact that I'm going HW in ACV..... And liking sniper cannons.... Doesn't sound right. D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Yeah, I'd be the opposite of you MoonWalker. I'd have a varied setup of an energy weapon, a solid main weapon, a blade, some missiles, and perhaps an extra weapon since I can fit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Catalog 2 is kinda neat, handguns are very powerful, my AC has 2 that are performance enhanced with 1580 and 1600 atk power, a mini KE BR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liarbird Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 shame handguns have such a low ammo cap, they are wonderful hand-cannons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aokiryu89 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Sounds like they are good for LWs then, just need to be sparring with the shots, nice coup de grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrum Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 1v1 is not properly supported by this game's engine (i.e. mechanics and balance). AC leg classes and weight types are all designed as hard counters to other AC leg classes and weight types rather than soft counters. To facilitate a proper 1v1 in ACV you have to implement some serious bans into the game or your results will be highly erratic. It's best to think of it like this: each leg class available is a hard counter to two other leg classes, is about even with two other leg classes, and is hard countered by two other leg classes. There are seven leg classes, so it works out pretty well like that. If you want to test player skill a few 3v3s are probably best and most efficient to run. One operator on each side and two players, with the person you're testing filling whichever role he or she wants to be accepted for. 2+1vs2+1 is normally a very stable matchup as there isn't enough power to just charge in, but there's an abundance of information to defend with and make informed choices off of. 2+1vs2+1 only really goes haywire when someone tries to suicide rush someone else. You can also be a bit more fair on new guys and make it a D2vsA2+1 match (D = Defenders, A = Attackers). In a match like that, the defenders will have their homebase turrets to help them while the attackers have an operator. Operators are basically required for proper invasion, so there is no way any remotely legitimate team will reach high rankings without one once the game has been out for a while. This is a bit easier than the D2+1vsA2+1 setup, as the defenders also get turrets while matching the attackers team size in that setting. Basically, a few 2v3s or 3v3s are probably best for testing player skill. I wasn't really paying attention to the 1v1 discussion up until now, though I was reading it. My brain was mostly in automod mode, haha. Sorry. Wow, that's really disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodlyPerfection Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Oh btw guys I finally wrote up a thing on the Scan Mode EN Regen formula on the new ACV section of our forum. For those who don't want to go there the formula is basically Head, Legs, Boosters, and Recon Units do not have EN drain when in Scan Mode. I go into much more detail about the system, how I discovered it (thanks to Niji for confirming it in the import since I only have the demo), and how I am going to milk the formula. http://forum.reachingperfection.com/Scan-Mode-EN-Regen-Formula-td3796909.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aokiryu89 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Wow, that's really disappointing. Don't worry, considering how most people wont even be able to figure out how important scan mode is I'm sure you wont get wasted by a freshman. Your just going to have to live with the fact that no matter what your AC is going to have a disadvantage toward another class. Which in my opinion is absolutely AWESOME. Because everyone using the same fundamental build is what kills MP. And it was almost always a disadvantage with the AC games as a whole. There were always those parts that everyone would use that would make the rest of the inventory look like garbage. With this new system we will always see variations that will never disappear to a single standard king AC design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fukei Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Some people aren't going to think that it's absolutely awesome that 1v1 is literally rock, paper & scissors now. I don't get why you have to try defending the game on an obvious flaw, because ruining any form of competitive play in that match type isn't exactly a good substitute for lack of high tier part variety. It does make the team play much more flavorful, but 1v1 has always been the main form of play until now, so it's kind of going to be a big deal to some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodlyPerfection Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Some people aren't going to think that it's absolutely awesome that 1v1 is literally rock, paper & scissors now. I don't get why you have to try defending the game on an obvious flaw, because ruining any form of competitive play in that match type isn't exactly a good substitute for lack of high tier part variety. It does make the team play much more flavorful, but 1v1 has always been the main form of play until now, so it's kind of going to be a big deal to some people. Except it isn't strictly rock-paper-scissors. There is enough flexibility in the system that you can tweak your design just a little in the garage during the 3 min ready up time or just tweak your style of play. Hard counters come with apparent weaknesses themselves, and as a result you can tweak to capitalize that weakness while not changing too much. It also encourages psychological play. Rather than one person always using one design in ranked, they have to be wary that their opponent might pick a counter to their design. The top ranked players will be forced to be good with a variety of setups if they want to keep a top spot... not just one AC. Honestly the system shows who can handle a variety of styles and play well in all of those styles... not just one. Anyone can feel comfortable with their playstyle, but it takes a skilled player to make something of a playstyle that is nowhere near their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fukei Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 In other words, in terms of designs, the rock, paper & scissors concept totally does exist. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodlyPerfection Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 In other words, in terms of designs, the rock, paper & scissors concept totally does exist. Thanks. Sure in a general sense, but it is a loose rock/paper/scissors design due to the customization system. If you can't tell the difference between a loose rock/paper/scissors setup and a hard one then I have no words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fukei Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 From the experience and research I've done, and especially having listened carefully to everything Niji has said both on the forum and in chat, it is definitely way, way worse than what you're trying to convey. I'll take his words over yours anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I get what you're saying Action man, but this form of online is preferable to AC4/FA's online, when Lag bladers were king and you couldn't even scrape the paint job of a dual OGOTO tank tread. at least now you can deal with an "unkillable AC" by exploiting a counter. And future patches may alleviate the "Pokemon syndrome" that you say online suffers from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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